Seòmar agus comataidhean

Looking forward, if we are still sitting here in five years’ time, before the end of the next parliamentary session, how will we measure success? I totally understand and appreciate what you have said about the work that is being done, but how will we measure its success? During last week’s debate on the Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill, a key issue that was raised was that of how we measure success. If the committee is looking at the same issue in five years’ time, how will we measure success? What will enable us to say to the TSIs and the groups in Blairgowrie, “This is how we’ve been successful”? How will we monitor success? How will we ensure that parity of esteem is embedded? What will enable us to say, “Right, we’ve done this because of A, B and C”?

I want to build on that line of questioning. When we visited Blairgowrie a month ago, a key issue that came up was that of how local delivery was. The council and volunteer organisations from Blairgowrie were at that meeting, and their key points were about policy making and budgets. Last week, we heard from the TSIs in various parts of Scotland, and, again, the issues of policy making, budgeting and making service delivery as local as possible came up.

How do we start to embed local delivery? We have talked about how to localise decision making for a long time. It came through strongly at last week’s meeting that TSIs do not feel that there is parity of esteem between national Government, local government and their organisations. What do we need to do to change the culture, which I saw as a councillor and as a Scottish Government minister? What do we need to do to embed a local approach? People do not feel that they are involved in policy making or in decision making on funding. How can we cement a local approach? How can we change things in the next session of Parliament to ensure that parity of esteem is embedded and that organisations such as TSIs and those that we met in Blairgowrie feel that there is a level playing field for them?

You make a good point, and we will open it to the floor.

One of the key things is that Scotland and UK are the most centralised Governments in Europe. They are far too centralised. Even our local authorities are much bigger than municipal authorities in other parts of Europe. Are there lessons to be learnt about how we deliver services? How do we localise services in the best way possible? That is a key issue for us to look at.

I am the MSP for East Lothian. I was previously a councillor in East Lothian. I was also the Minister for Housing for a couple of years, until June this year.

Thank you, convener. I was going to ask some questions on housing, but I think that the witnesses have answered them. It is an issue that we need to discuss carefully.

Luis Yanes made an incredibly important point about having localised solutions. The rural housing action plan looked at the issue, but it is clear that there is no one size that fits all, even in different parts of rural Scotland.

I have a couple of questions. Two key things came through for me when we were in Blairgowrie last week. One was about the cost of living, so I will ask about the cost of living in general, and the second was about looking at solutions as to how we deliver services. Is the council best? Juliana talked about having a multi-agency approach, but who is best to deliver these services? Is it national Government setting the policy framework, is it local government doing what it does, or it best to leave things to local services taking a multi-agency approach? For me, one of the key questions is how we best deliver services.

Capacity building was raised as an issue last week. You will hear that being discussed in all the TSIs. Do we have enough capacity in our communities to deliver the services that need to be there? Who is best to deliver those services, and is there enough flexibility within the system now?

In my experience as a councillor and from speaking to organisations, I have often found that those in the local community are the best people to deliver services, but do they have the capacity and the funding to do that? We need a change in the way in which we deliver services in rural Scotland in terms of building that capacity. What should we do on the back of having heard from you all today? One of the key things is how we support local communities, how we fund them and how we build capacity.

Juliana, I will come to you first, because you talked about the multi-agency approach, but there are two fundamental questions: who is best placed to deliver services, and how can we support that?

We have heard evidence about different policy frameworks across different services, including schools and care settings. Childcare providers, too, have given evidence about the use of restraint and seclusion. Does the bill present a risk of dual reporting in some settings, such as schools with early learning and childcare classes or residential facilities? We have heard from staff at schools with residential facilities. Is there a reporting issue here? What are your thoughts about that?

I know that I am slightly moving our discussion beyond the scope of the bill in asking this, but if that area is outwith the bill’s scope, where do you see it falling when it comes to what happens next? We heard evidence from residential schools about that.

Let me clarify that. We are considering the scope of the bill. You have deliberately not widened it to include residential schools, so how do you see that aspect developing? It is something that we should consider.

As you said, and as the minister said, learning from the best practice is really important.

That is something for us to consider.

Do you see a timescale for that? I note our timescales in moving the bill forward after today’s discussion. You have mentioned a consultation and discussion: where do you see the timescales around that? That is not to put you on the spot, but could you give us a rough idea?