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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 November 2024
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Displaying 948 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I would not say instructed, because one of the key things—whether it is about health and social care or the Scottish Prison Service—is working with them as partners. It is about learning from the lived experience of people who have had to go through the Scottish Prison Service or the NHS. It is very much about co-design and co-production. You were keen to talk about that in relation to the national care service. For me, building that together and building on best practice is the really important part of it, and we meet the Scottish Prison Service regularly to do that.

The challenge within the organisation is to build on the culture that is already there. The Prison Service is really keen to build on that and work as partners and it has been speaking to us not just about what it does within its organisation, but about how it can work closely with, for example, the NHS. It is very much about co-design and co-production.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

Yes. I meet the SFHA regularly to discuss a number of issues. When I met the housing associations in Easterhouse a couple of weeks ago, they talked about their roles in development and wider involvement in the community. They talked about their role in providing advice, and domestic abuse was an area that they picked up. We are engaging with them to try to maximise what already happens in their work—for example, with Glasgow City Council. The work of housing associations is one example, but there are also organisations such as the Wheatley Group, which has more resource and income and is working very closely on what will come through under the bill.

It is very much about trying to get a uniform approach. How do we make sure that the smaller housing associations have the necessary training? The SFHA has said that some housing associations are trying to pool some of their resources round around the domestic abuse part, because that is really important.

For a lot of housing associations, that is relatively new. However, it very much came across from the SFHA that it is really keen to make sure that it plays its part. I will continue to discuss that with the SFHA. As I said, it is easier for the likes of the Wheatley Group, for example, which has the resource to do that, but we are very much looking at pooling teams in order to provide that.

I visited four Borders registered social landlords that work closely together on the domestic abuse advice that they give. This is very much about building on that work. I do not want to say that this is new work, because they have been working on it, but they are all keen to focus on it. Therefore, it is about looking at how we can maximise the resource that they have for that. There are good examples such as those Borders housing associations, which work closely together to ensure that they pass on information.

It was a similar situation with CIH and the discussions that I have had with CIH about the training that is required in the housing sector itself. It had mentioned and discussed training on domestic abuse. Those discussions are on-going in CIH and the whole housing sector in order to build that up.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

That builds on what we already have, because the NHS obviously operates with the local council at a particular time. I have seen cases where that has happened—for example, in work with the Simon Community to pass on cases. Therefore, that process already exists and this is building on that. It is not the case that that process does not exist at the moment.

The key thing, then, is to find out whether there is somebody who can come in and identify the homelessness. This is all about making sure that there is a procedure in place to deal with that, so we are building on what we already have in that regard.

At our meeting with the NHS last week, that is exactly what we talked about—the guidance and training on that particular point. These are existing procedures that we are trying to build on—in other words, this already happens—so we are not just starting this process now. That is the key thing. We have that feedback from people with lived experience, so the process is about making sure that the nurse or whoever is there is aware of the prevention duties. By that, I mean whether they are identifying that a person is at risk of homelessness on that particular night, knows whom they need to speak to about that and acts on that. It is not just a case of passing it on to the local authority.

Catriona MacKean might want to add something on that point.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

If we need to revise it, we will. That is key. We will continue to engage with local authorities. When I meet local authorities, including the City of Edinburgh Council, we have that level of discussion. If the City of Edinburgh Council and other local authorities say that such a thing is happening, we will, of course, look to revise the financial memorandum, if necessary, at that point. It is an on-going exercise. A key thing to stress is that we engaged with local authorities consistently prior to the financial memorandum being published. However, if we need to look at it, we will do so and will consider bringing something forward.

I am happy to discuss the matter offline with you. I discuss it with local authorities all the time, but I am happy to consider it again if that is the information that is coming through.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I am happy to take that point away and discuss it with colleagues. I take your point and totally understand it, so I am happy to come back to you on that in writing.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I have engaged with Scottish Land & Estates on a number of occasions and the issue has come up, so we have discussed it. I have probably met it on four, five or six occasions in the past year or so, and we have engaged on the issue. SLE will back up that I have engaged with it on the issue.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

There are a number of things in there. One, as you said, is building on best practice. You mentioned the SHORE standards and we talked to the Scottish Prison Service about that. On-going engagement with it is key.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

Do you mean as part of the bill?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

We are still engaging on that. I will bring in Catriona MacKean, who has been directly involved in some of the discussions. Colleagues who work in criminal justice are trying to push that forward. We are very cognisant of that, because that work is important and we need to get it moving as we move forward with the bill.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee [Draft]

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I am sorry, but I—