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The stage 2 working group report refers to the protected trust deed. I notice that there was a bit of debate on increasing the minimum debt level, which is currently £5,000. The exact wording of the report is:

“This remains a contentious issue with sharply opposing views”.

Will you say a bit more about that to help us understand the thought process on both sides?

The review outlines the work that stage 3 is likely to look at. One of the key topics is an

“assessment of existing debt solutions”,

to see whether they are “fit for purpose”. You just mentioned fuel poverty and so on. Will that come into the equation? Some of the evidence that we have heard has been about moving away from the traditional debt solutions for credit issues and people’s expenditure exceeding their income. Will that play a part in, or be a wider context for the stage 3 review?

Thank you.

Convener, as Sally Witcher has mentioned, a lot of complex work is being undertaken. This might be something that we can discuss later, but I think that we need to keep an eye on things, perhaps get some further written information at an appropriate stage and pick up matters at a later point. It is all very complex.

Good morning, Richard. the review of the statutory debt solutions is on-going—I think that the stage 2 recommendations have just been published. Are you aware of any timescales for introducing those recommendations?

Minister, some stakeholders commented that address information is insufficient and that further details such as rent values should be provided. You touched on that in your opening statement, but is there anything that you want to add?

I was reading your written evidence, which says that level of debt in the United Kingdom is about £13.5 billion, of which Scotland’s share would be about £1.5 billion to £2 billion.

I put the same question to Kirsty McKechnie.

You have just touched on the point that I was going to address, convener. Previous stakeholders have talked about how solutions for people in debt are not just about reforming the debt processes and how we deal with that, but are also about how we increase incomes via the social security system. Does anybody want to expand on the point the convener touched on about universal credit teams? Is there more that can be done about that?

Kirsty McKechnie, you touched on simplification of the process in terms of criteria. Also, you talked about the complications within the local authorities and who deals with what. Can more be done about that?

This morning, I saw that Audit Scotland had published a report about the roll-out of the benefits system so far in Scotland. It seems to have been successful, but challenges remain. We have 20 per cent devolved benefits at the moment and, by 2025, it will be 70 per cent. Can we learn any lessons between now and 2025 about how we roll out those other benefits to make them as effective as possible?

Kirsty, I will come to you first on the points that you mentioned about criteria and equity and access to the system.

One point concerned equity but another point involves making people aware of the benefits. That comes back to the point that Martin Canavan mentioned before, about trying to get that advice out there so that we can pre-empt some of the issues—Betty Stone made the same points. We need to increase the benefits but we also need to do more about the accessibility. Does anyone want to add anything to that?

One of the things that we have seen in our evidence taking in the past few weeks is how the private and public sectors deal with debt. Do you think that the public sector is behind the private sector in dealing with debt? I put that to Martin Canavan. I will then open the question to whoever wants to come in.

Thank you.

Martin, could you address the question about pre-emptive action? There will always be budgetary and resource pressures, and people who arrive at the door saying, “I need help.” This is maybe a question about cost-effectiveness. Can we do more before people get into that situation? You mentioned the importance of family support and family advice. Do you want to expand on that? I am talking about investing to ensure that fewer people get in such situations further down the line.