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I think that we touched on this earlier. Obviously, there are existing regulatory processes in place, but you are right that one of the key things—as Bob Doris mentioned—is the question of how we monitor them. We are in discussions with the Scottish Housing Regulator on what that might look like, and I am happy to write to the committee in more detail on the issue. It is right that, if we bring in this legislation, the committee or whoever should receive reports on how successful it has been.

Pamela McBride can say more about the discussions with the regulator.

When we surveyed local authorities, we asked them to be as open and honest as they could be about that. That survey was conducted and concluded last December, and the information that we have is based on what was sent in. One of the key things with developing the statutory guidance and the training will be the cost, and we have talked about co-ordination and what will be required in that regard.

I suppose that the challenge to local authorities—which have quite rightly challenged me, too—is to say what that will actually look like once we get into the detail of the bill. I should also say that the financial memorandum was based on the information that we got back from local authorities. I will continue to work with COSLA on the homelessness prevention and strategy group, which I chair with Councillor Chalmers. We will continue to develop these matters, and if we need to look at the financial memorandum again and amend it, we will do so. That issue will be covered in our detailed discussions.

I say again that we based the financial memorandum on the survey information that we got back from local authorities, and, if we need to review it as the bill develops, we will do so.

Our decision will be based on the discussions that we will have over the summer. I will discuss the matter with officials. Pamela McBride might want to come in on that point, as she did a lot of work on the survey, but, as I have said, we based the financial memorandum on the information that we got from local authorities. If this is what local authorities need, we will continue to discuss the issue with COSLA.

You are right that it does us no service if we cannot resource this—it will just worsen the situation, to be quite honest with you. We have based the financial memorandum on what we have been told, but, as we move further into the bill process, we will continue to monitor the matter and, if we need to change it, we will do so. We would need to discuss that with officials at the relevant time, because if we needed to amend it, we would want to do so at the best time to ensure that we were not having to amend it again another three months down the line. That is important.

Pamela McBride might want to touch on the work that we did and the survey.

Yes, I am happy to do so and to write to the committee on the matter. We have touched, broadly, on the kind of things that we will be looking at—for example, sequencing; the training and guidance that will be required; and co-ordination, which I think has been mentioned. I think that Katy Clark asked for this, too, but I am happy to come back to the committee after the summer if you want to have a quick evidence session on what we have learned from our engagement.

As I have said, I am happy to write to the committee on Mr Stewart’s point, but sequencing, resourcing, training and co-ordination will be the main things that we will discuss with stakeholders over that time. As, I think, Mr Stewart mentioned, we have already had extensive discussions with COSLA, Crisis, the Cyrenians, Shelter and other organisations, and officials meet those groups on a daily basis.

I think that the legal frameworks are different. I had a meeting with the Scottish Association of Landlords this week, and that was one of the issues that came up. The association is doing a lot of work. You are talking about individual owners as well as landlords who own five or 10 properties, so trying to embed that into the system is much more difficult. However, the association is keen to work with us on that particular point, and we will continue to work with it on that. It will provide guidance for its members in relation to that work in conjunction with us, but it becomes more difficult when you are dealing with individual owners. However, as I said, the association is keen to work with us on that and develop it. The private rented sector is a really important sector, but it cannot be exempt from the work that needs to be done, particularly around domestic abuse.

More generally, that work becomes important with regard to joint tenancies. The issues around joint tenancies can be quite difficult—for example, if someone is looking to move away. In the work that we are doing on domestic abuse, we are also talking about the joint tenancies part of things. Again, we are working very closely with the association on that and we discussed that with it during the week. It is developing guidelines and working with us, and it recognises that it needs to address that.

I will bring in Pamela McBride in a second, because I have not done a lot of work on that.

There are probably two ways in which that assessment has been presented and there are two different versions. One is the easy-read one for the public and there is also some more detailed information. It has taken a little bit longer than we thought it would take, so I apologise for that. There is some other information that will come out about that particular point.

One of the key things that Homeless Network Scotland said is that equalities goes all the way through that—we have touched on the issue of equalities in domestic abuse. That will always be the case. As we develop that work over the summer, that must and always will be there.

I will bring Pamela in to talk about the work that has been done on that particular point and what is likely to be done in the next few weeks.

I would be happy to write to the committee about that specific point.

Yes. Thank you, convener. It is good to be back. I was previously a member of the committee and I always enjoyed my time here. I think that Mr Balfour is the only member who is left from when we were both here—it is good to see him again.

Good morning, and thank you for the opportunity to speak on the important topic of the Housing (Scotland) Bill. I understand that the committee has agreed with the Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee that you will lead on part 5, on the measures for homelessness prevention, and on part 6, but only in so far as it relates to fuel poverty. I will therefore focus only on those measures. I will be happy to pick up the remaining provisions with the LGHP Committee.

As I highlight the key measures of parts 5 and 6 of the bill, I am mindful that the committee has heard from witnesses who, although supportive of the measures in principle, have raised some concerns about their practical implementation. They include concerns about what further engagement there will be with stakeholders, particularly as we look towards the timing of implementation and at resourcing. I will take the opportunity to reassure you by addressing those issues.

On the homelessness prevention duties, although Scotland has some of the strongest rights in the world for people who become homeless, the same cannot be said for people who are at risk of homelessness. The measures in the bill aim to put a renewed focus on homelessness prevention so that individuals and families do not have to experience the trauma and disruption to lives that it causes. We want to help to keep people in their homes where that is possible and appropriate, and, in the longer term, to ensure that there is less pressure on housing supply and public resources.

The measures in the bill have been guided by the principles of the prevention review group, which brought together a wide range of stakeholders including the prevention commission, which is a group of people who have lived or front-line experience of homelessness. The new ask and act measures for relevant bodies are bold and they reach further than similar duties that have been introduced elsewhere in the UK.

The next stage is to work closely with our stakeholders on the details of how the ask and act measures and the changes to existing homelessness legislation for local authorities will work in practice. We will work collaboratively with stakeholders to develop guidance that builds on existing good practice that is already happening; to identify the training that is required to ensure that our workforce has the necessary skills to make the duties a success; and, crucially, to identify the most appropriate timing for implementation of the changes against the landscape of other challenges in housing and elsewhere.

The principles of shared public responsibility, earlier intervention across systems, and more choice and control over housing options through avoiding crises are also at the forefront of our minds with the measures.

We took an evidence-based approach to deliver our best estimates of the costings and resource implications, which are set out in the financial memorandum. In December 2023, working with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, we conducted a survey of local authorities on the potential resource implications of any new duties. The approach built on the ask in the jointly-run Scottish Government and COSLA consultation that ran to April 2022. Although the feedback was limited in the amount of detail that was provided, I recognise that investing resources in early intervention can be effective for people who are at risk of homelessness, as it means that they avoid reaching crisis point and entering the homelessness system, which in turn decreases the demand for temporary accommodation and puts less pressure on resources over the longer term.

Stakeholder feedback and analysis and further work to identify the content of secondary legislation, guidance and training that is required to support the duties will also help to inform the detail of what might be required in future budget-setting processes.

In updating the definition of domestic abuse as it applies in housing legislation, we have taken account of the evidence on the need for a gendered approach. The equality impact assessment, which was published on 21 June, demonstrates that approach. We know that men’s and women’s experiences of homelessness are very different, and our focus on domestic abuse is therefore key, as it is one of the main reasons for women making a homelessness application but might not be the main reason for men doing so. I want to reassure you that the statutory guidance that will be developed to accompany the provisions will also take a gendered approach, and we will highlight the importance of applying a gendered lens to services and policies.

On fuel poverty, we are implementing a minor technical change to the Fuel Poverty (Targets, Definition and Strategy) (Scotland) Act 2019 to deliver a strengthened governance process. Our continuous improvement approach will give officials a more suitable lead-in time for preparing reports; engaging with an extensive range of stakeholders, including our Scottish fuel poverty advisory panel; and undertaking analysis.

The bill is designed to focus our action on supporting the most vulnerable, especially during these challenging times, in order to achieve our shared goal of delivering safe, affordable and quality homes, and the measures will help to deliver on that ambition. I view the measures in the bill as an important next step in delivering on our ambition to end homelessness in Scotland. I and my officials look forward to answering any questions that members might have on those parts of the bill.

Paul McLennan has identified an error in his contribution and provided the following corrections.

At col 7, paragraph 6—

Original text—

One of the key things that I asked for when I came into post, 15 or 16 months ago, was the setting up of a ministerial group on homelessness. Ten ministers are taking part in that, and it has already met four times.

Corrected text—

One of the key things that I asked for when I came into post, 15 or 16 months ago, was the setting up of a ministerial group on homelessness. Nine ministers are taking part in that, and it has already met four times.

At col 8, paragraph 1—

Original text—

We will continue to make sure that opportunities in policy development and budgetary processes are maximised. The group has 10 ministers, including me, and we talk about that specific issue.

Corrected text—

We will continue to make sure that opportunities in policy development and budgetary processes are maximised. The group has nine ministers, including me, and we talk about that specific issue.

At col 13, paragraph 5—

Original text—

I talked earlier about why we have 10 ministers on the ministerial oversight group. In some of the more complex homelessness cases, four or five specialist areas can be involved.

Corrected text—

I talked earlier about why we have nine ministers on the ministerial oversight group. In some of the more complex homelessness cases, four or five specialist areas can be involved.

There were a number of issues. This takes me back to when I was on the committee and we discussed those. It was about trying to bed in what was already in place at that point. That has been the key thing for me during the process and from speaking to the ASSC, the STA and others. Obviously, this is the first point at which we could do that.

I will again bring in Jess Niven, who has been involved in the process, which goes right the way back to 2019.

Covid made an impact in 2019, which continued to 2021, 2022 and 2023. There was a bit of flexibility within the sector, with people coming into and out of it. The issue was highlighted then—and I will bring in Jess Niven to discuss that point. From our interactions with stakeholders, I thought that we needed to act on the issue relatively quickly, hence why we took the opportunity.

Jess Niven has been involved in the process for a lot longer than me, and she was involved in the original discussions.