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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 April 2025
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Displaying 1101 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

Part of that comes back to community planning, although it is almost outwith the remit of the bill. It is about how local authorities set up their community planning frameworks so that housing and homelessness are included. That could be done through local authorities’ community planning partnerships or a thematic group. The Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee has heard mixed views on that. We can enact legislation, but the way that local authorities and, more broadly, community planning partners take part in the process is important. It feeds into the point about how we tackle the issues, because the closer that the partnership between local authorities and communities is, the easier it will be to make sure that these things work.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

I will ask Catriona MacKean to come in on that. I will write to the committee and will speak to the relevant minister about it. You are right in saying that the provisions in the 2021 act need to be in force in order to help us to do what we need to do. Scottish Women’s Aid has also raised that point with us.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

Can you clarify whether Shelter was referring to the broader housing system or the homelessness system specifically?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

As you will know from your experience, there are lots of homeless cases and people tend not to arrive with just the one problem; they can have a whole range of issues. If you are talking about a complex case, two months is not long enough to deal with that situation. Six months gives us an opportunity to identify the possibility of preventing homelessness at an earlier stage. Two months is an extremely short period of time in which to deal with that. In speaking to stakeholders across Scotland in the past number of months, I have found that they welcome the change from two months to six months.

Part of it is about having a greater understanding of the role of the police and the health board in trying to prevent someone from arriving in a homelessness situation in the first place, and part of it is about time. Two months is not long enough to deal with a complex case. If you have a range of meetings, two months is not long enough. It just is not long enough, both in my experience and in speaking to colleagues across Scotland about it.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

No. I am happy to come back to the committee when I get feedback as part of the discussions that we will have over the summer. We are going to discuss the issue in detail with the likes of Crisis and the Cyrenians, which I think have called for a phased approach.

It all comes back to geographical differences. How we deal with the implementation in Glasgow will be different from how we deal with it in, say, the Highlands or in the Western Isles. Part of the discussion will be about that, because we have to listen to what local authorities and other stakeholders are saying about the implementation. We have already had some comments, but I would like to get more into the detail over the summer, part of which will involve looking at resourcing and talking about statutory guidance and how long training will take.

We need to pass the bill and we need the culture change that Mr Stewart has talked about, but we also need to ensure that the legislation is implemented at the right pace and at the right time. Again, that will be guided by stakeholders, which is an important part of the process.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

As we talked about, domestic abuse falls outwith my remit, but, again, that is one of the key things that we are talking about with colleagues—for example, Scottish Women’s Aid—to make sure that the legislation on that is taken forward into a housing context.

At the moment, the picture is very mixed. We talked about the monitoring of what that looks like. It is important to see what difference is made. At the moment, we all know that the situation is very mixed for women who present themselves as homeless in relation to domestic abuse. We need to—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

Those are good questions. It is a framework bill, but it is key that prevention duties and measures are already in place and we are building on them. For example, through the proposal to extend the period of assistance from two to six months, we are trying to reinforce the assistance that is given. The process of addressing a person’s homelessness does not normally involve only one body—it probably involves a number of bodies—so it is about how we ensure that flow-through from one body to another is there, because that is important.

Part of the work that we will undertake this summer is on engaging and talking about the statutory guidance and training that will be required. Pamela McBride touched on what we are planning to do this summer and on what that will look like. That work will feed back when we are at the next level. I am comfortable with continuing to discuss with the committee when it sees guidance and performs scrutiny. It is up to the committee to decide when it does that. I have no problem with coming back after the summer to discuss that.

As to whether I am open minded about looking at what will come from that process after the summer and at what will be in the bill, I am. I will need to speak to colleagues about that, and it depends on what feedback and guidance we get from the statutory bodies and key stakeholders during the summer. In its evidence, the Association of Local Authority Chief Housing Officers said the same thing about what should be in the framework bill. I am open minded about that, and I am happy to come back to the committee at any stage to confirm or reassure it on when scrutiny will take place.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

I have had individual discussions with ALACHO about that. It comes back to the point that Kevin Stewart made. First, there is the legislation and, secondly, there is changing the culture. The important part is changing the culture. That applies not only to this legislation. Any legislation can change how we act legally, but sometimes what is needed is a culture change. The point that Mr Stewart made about culture is very important, and part of that will be guided—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

Monitoring processes are already in place. We have had key discussions with the Scottish Housing Regulator in that regard and will continue to do so as the bill develops. I am happy to come back to the committee with more specifics on that point, because discussions are continuing on that, as the role of the regulator is important.

I am also happy to come back to the committee to speak more specifically about the scrutiny of the legislation, at a stage that you think would be relevant. That is not a problem.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 27 June 2024

Paul McLennan

There is a homelessness prevention and strategy group, which is co-chaired by COSLA and me. We talk to all the major stakeholders regularly, and they have input into the work of that group. The group can feed back and review this. We are working closely with COSLA on the detail and what it will look like.

We have undertaken work already, and we will continue to do so. Local authorities and other groups feed into that process. The further we get into the process, obviously, that will develop further. However, as I said, we work closely with COSLA on what resourcing will look like and about homelessness prevention overall. As we get further into detail—during the summer engagement, for example—we will start discussing what it will look like. We have reached out to local authorities and asked them for their assessments, which is what the financial memorandum was based on. We will continue to engage with COSLA and other stakeholders on that point. You are right that the bill has to be resourced; it is as simple as that. If it is not, it defeats the purpose of the bill. It has to be resourced properly.

We have engaged extensively with COSLA on that, and we will continue to do so. As I said, COSLA and I chair the homelessness prevention and strategy group, which has the major stakeholders involved in it.