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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 April 2025
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Displaying 1101 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I am keen to look at that more broadly outwith the bill. I have met the Scottish Association of Landlords on a number of occasions, and we have another meeting coming up. One of the key issues is that there has to be a tripartite agreement and almost a strategic approach. That includes not just the Scottish Government, landlords and investors but local authorities. In discussions with local authorities, we are trying to work with them to understand what the private rented sector looks like in Glasgow and in Edinburgh and what other roles it has in other parts of Scotland. When I have meetings with local authorities, I always ask them about the role of their private rented sector.

I have a meeting with John Blackwood and the Scottish Association of Landlords to talk about what that approach looks like. How do we get a closer relationship between the Government, the rented sector and local authorities? We will explore that and see what we can do there. The private rented sector is an incredibly important part of striking the balance with housing, but it is different in every part of Scotland, so it needs slightly different approaches. That is an important aspect.

10:15  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I mentioned Edinburgh and Glasgow because when we look at rent increases we see that they are areas that have been under pressure. I think that that is down to supply and demand, and to much broader measures. I talked about how we might bring forward strategic sites in Edinburgh and Glasgow. We have had discussions in Edinburgh and Glasgow on that; for example, I asked the Edinburgh city region body to produce a report on the eight strategic sites there and to say what is required to bring them forward and the time for that, because the quicker we can increase supply, the better. That is basic economics around supply and demand. Glasgow is similar—a broader approach will be taken through looking at the city region.

When you look at rent increases in different parts of Scotland, you sometimes see rent increases that are quite low. I have visited parts of Scotland—for example, Inverclyde—that have that opposite problem. Therefore, the local approach is really important. I am not saying that the controls need to be in Edinburgh and Glasgow—that is not a Government target. I gave those as examples because they are the areas where large rent increases have been identified.

Obviously, we would consult the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the local authorities on what that looks like, and we would look at the data behind that to be sure about what is taken forward. The process has to be done in consultation with local authorities and based on the data. As I have mentioned, we need to do a little more on the data and to work with local authorities on that. For example, I talked about the size of the PRS in Edinburgh and Glasgow. I would like to see closer collaboration between local authorities, the PRS and the Government on what the sector looks like, its opportunity to grow and its role in tackling homelessness. How do we incentivise people to come back into the PRS? That is a much broader approach.

There is also a need to consult the local community on what rent controls actually look like. However, we need to have flexibility in the system, based on what is required in Edinburgh and in Glasgow. A rent control area will be set out for a period of time, but if we find that the data changes over the period, the rent controls might not stay in place. If there are changes in the economy, we will have the flexibility to remove the rent controls at those times.

I gave Edinburgh and Glasgow as examples because those are the areas where the largest rent increases have been.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

On the general question of personalisation, I met the Dogs Trust before I was a minister and, knowing that a housing bill would be coming up, the trust raised that issue. It said that it can be helpful for an elderly person, or for someone who cannot get out of their home because of illness, to have a dog as a companion. That was raised two and a bit years ago, before I was a minister, and I think that it is really important.

I have visited the Scottish Association of Landlords to talk about the matter. Procedure is the key thing and must be in place. Is the pet a wee Chihuahua or a Great Dane? I might be exaggerating, but the dog has to be appropriate to the size of the property. To me, the onus should be on the tenant to look at that, but we are trying to be as flexible as possible. We will see what that looks like in more detail when the regulations come in.

Regarding landlords, it is all about making sure that they are aware of the procedure and that they have the ability, within reason, to say, for example, that you cannot have a Great Dane in a one-bedroom flat. It is about recognising the importance of people having pets as companions and striking the balance. That is a key thing.

11:30  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

At the time when I visited the rent deposit scheme, which was about a year ago, there were issues to do with Covid and people moving in and out again reasonably quickly. I am not too sure why there was that increase at that time. Charlotte McHaffie might have something else to say on that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

There is an onus on the landlord to take as much information as possible at the start of the process. If a tenant changes their only email address or their mobile phone number, which could be their only number, it becomes difficult. As I said, the onus is on the landlord to get as much information as they can. There is also a responsibility on the tenant to provide as much information as possible, but it should be made clear at the start of the process that there is a substantial amount of money sitting there.

You mentioned the substantial increases, Mr MacDonald. I imagine that the situation is partly down to Covid, but it is not just about that. We cannot have a situation where an international student changes their email address and is forgotten about. There are also questions about how we liaise with universities and whether we get information from them. There are issues around the general data protection regulation, but we have to maximise the information that we have on tenants, because a substantial amount of money is sitting there.

The bill touches on how the money may be used, which is restricted. It mentions the provision of

“information or assistance to private tenants in relation to their rights”

and

“other services or facilities that promote or support the interests of such tenants”,

and work that involves

“preventing private tenants from becoming homeless”.

The funds can be used, but we have to discuss how we support tenants specifically. I think that deposits are treated as unclaimed after five years. We need to decrease the amount of money that is unclaimed and, if we cannot reduce the money that is left, ensure that it is used to protect and support tenants’ rights.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

There is recognition of that. I touched on the data point earlier. The new deal for tenants touched on data.

I will touch on the specifics, but the relationship between local authorities, the Government and the PRS is important. How do we strengthen that? How do we ensure that there is a closer relationship at the local housing strategy level, investment level and planning level? What does that look like? That gives you the overarching relationship that I would like to develop, because it is important. I have discussed that with local authorities and the Scottish Association of Landlords. We have a meeting at which we will discuss that in a wee bit more detail, which is important.

There is already work under way on data, because we will need it to determine rent controls for local areas in the future. If we do not have data, we will make assumptions based on data that might not be accurate. The key thing is how we develop the data that is needed. We are discussing that in detail with local authorities.

Yvette might want to touch on that in more detail, but I have that discussion with councillor colleagues and officials. That is a key part. Yvette might want to add something else on the logistics of how it works, but there are continuing discussions.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I think that Yvette Sheppard touched on that. That is one of the key things in our discussions with local authorities and, for example, the Scottish Association of Landlords, because they have data on what that looks like. It is really important that we have that data, both on a local basis, because that will determine the size of the sector in Edinburgh, Glasgow and other local authorities, and nationally, because that will inform how we develop the PRS sector and the role that it plays in Scotland. There is a need for that. I hope to discuss that with local authorities and the SAL when we have a discussion relatively shortly.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I know what Mr Griffin is trying to get at, and I can totally understand his position. He has probably had feedback from investors on that issue. We need to recognise that and to provide, through the bill’s principles, a framework that encourages investment. When we are considering amendments, we will have to take cognisance of that. I am happy to discuss the issue in more detail with Mr Griffin, who, I am sure, will have had feedback from the sector. That is an area in which we must try to strike a balance.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

That is still under consideration. Yvette Sheppard might have something to add in relation to the discussions that she has had.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Housing (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2024

Paul McLennan

I cannot go into the specifics of MMR. A key thing to mention on exemptions is that the bill gives us the power to specify types of properties, or other circumstances, for which rent increases would not apply. When we discuss some of the amendments at stage 2, those details will become clear. We have demonstrated the value of the ability of MMR properties to bring in additional capital. As is mentioned in the programme for government, the £100 million that we will commit will bring in additional capital of about £500 million, based on some existing investments.

In discussions with the housing investment task force and with colleagues in the housing sector there was recognition of the importance of MMR—you have probably heard the SFHA talking about it. We are listening to what the SFHA and a range of other stakeholders are saying.

Mr Griffin will also know that the all-tenure approach is key. It is not just social housing; we need a mix of MMR and other types of housing in different parts of Scotland. MMR is easier to offer in some parts of Scotland than in others. Private investment also comes in. I have visited a number of developments—as, I am sure, committee members have—where there is a mix of social housing, MMR housing and private development. I want to see that flexibility in the Scottish housing market, because that is an example of how we can look at projects that may not be viable on their own, but with a mix of MMR, private development and social housing they work. It is about trying to achieve a balance with that. As we lodge amendments to the bill, there will be recognition of the evidence that has been taken, and we are listening to all stakeholders. Again, it is about striking the right balance. I am happy to discuss the specifics of MMR in more detail once they are available.