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That is one of the bodies that were talked about before. Establishing a protocol was mentioned and that is one of the bodies that we would engage with on that. That is important, because there are different examples of where Social Security Scotland would be involved.

Another key point is that we talked about what duties there will be in the bill. If we are talking about statutory guidance and training, one of the key things is to talk about how we involve Social Security Scotland and other groups. We will be working and focusing on that with stakeholders. Part of the discussions over the summer will be about exactly what is required in the statutory guidance and training for some of those bodies. Again, we will be tightening that up as we go through the process over the summer and continue through the bill process.

I have engaged with Shelter on that particular point and there are a number of issues. This goes back to the first question in that this is not an either/or situation—for example with regard to how we look at the situation with temporary accommodation or how we increase housing supply. That is really important. I made a statement last week, and I will be meeting the organisations that made the co-ordinated statement—we have asked for a meeting with them—to pick up those particular issues.

That is one separate issue, but, for me, the prevention duty is as important. We need to prevent people from becoming homeless in the first place. We already have guidance that says that we will deal with people who are at risk of becoming homeless within two months. You will know, given your experience, that two months is not a long time in which to deal with such a case. Changing that duty to apply to those who are at risk of becoming homeless within six months is incredibly important, because that provides time to deal with cases.

We also talked about the co-ordinated role. Mr Doris talked about the complex cases and what we can do to tighten up that aspect of the system. Therefore, there is the ask and act duty.

My experience as a councillor was that what happened sometimes depended on who the housing officer was and how much that culture was embedded in the local authority. We cannot have that situation, which is why the statutory guidance and training will make sure that the matter is picked up by local authorities. We have worked on that very closely with the likes of COSLA. That must flow through all the organisations involved—the police, health boards and so on. We need to ensure that that flows all the way through so that we are giving people that support at as early an opportunity as possible and ensuring that everybody who is involved in that process is aware of what their duties are.

As I said, some of that will come back to legislation, but I keep coming back to the point that Mr Stewart made, which is that it also involves culture. It is important to ensure that statutory guidance and training are embedded in all organisations.

I would not agree that the homelessness system is broken. Could we be doing better? Of course we could, which is why we are bringing in legislation to prevent homelessness in the first place. We then have to tackle issues that have been mentioned about temporary accommodation, increasing housing supply and so on.

The issue of two months versus six months is one of the key things that the prevention review group talked about, based on its members’ experience, which was important. These cases are never just going to be about two months or six months, so there will of course always be a degree of flexibility. Some cases are more complex than others. The provision on six months is obviously trying to give guidance, but we know that cases do not just fall into two months or six months. There will always be an element of flexibility.

There are a few things to say in that regard. I will come back to Aff the Streets but, more broadly, you might be aware of the work that the Rock Trust is doing in West Lothian, where it is working with the West Lothian Council education service to pick up needs at an early stage, dealing with kids aged 15 or 16 who could end up in a situation like the one that you describe.

It is important to deal with those issues at an early stage, but I have seen cases of people leaving school at 16 and then experiencing a family breakdown that leads to their being in a homelessness situation, and then, when they go to a councillor or an MSP surgery and are asked who they have spoken to, they say that they have spoken to nobody. I will come back to the specific point that you mentioned, but the work that is being done in West Lothian is trying to identify the roles of social work, guidance teachers and, importantly, mediation, and when those people should come into the situation.

On the issue of the two-month period versus the six-month period, the earlier that we can get people involved in that process, the better, and it is important to engage with people such as the Rock Trust and Aff the Streets on what that engagement looks like.

On the issue of guidance and training and how we deal with young people in particular, the Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise comes along to meetings of the ministerial oversight group and we talk about, for example, children in care in relation to the Promise. On the impact of that, I have had meetings with The Promise Scotland about situations that might arise. We know that there are issues around what happens when children leave care. If a prevention discussion is not taking place, they could end up in a situation where they are homeless.

Again, it is important to engage with the stakeholders over a period of time—I will be doing that over the summer period. We need to identify issues as early as possible. That relates to the issue of the burden of proof that you mention, because the issue becomes more difficult in relation to kids who are 15 or 16. As I said, we must engage with stakeholders such as Aff the Streets and the Rock Trust on what we can do in that regard. It is important to acknowledge that a lot of good work is going on to build on the good practice that is already in place, and the guidance touches on the importance of working with stakeholders in that area to make sure that issues are picked up at an early stage.

I think that the regulator issues reports based on, for example, how each local authority is dealing with fulfilling its homelessness duties. It would be useful if I could write to the committee on where those reports are sent and the timescales around that, because a number of reports are published. The point about how we know whether the prevention approach is working effectively is important, so I am happy to write to the committee on what is reported.

I will answer the second part of your question first. This is a key point, and, in saying that, I acknowledge the earlier point about where we are on temporary accommodation and the broader homelessness figures. A balance needs to be struck between implementation and how we deal with the current temporary accommodation situation, and it will be one of the most important parts of the discussion about implementation. For example, will there be a phased implementation, and what do we need to do over that period? It is one thing having legislation that gives us the ability to do this, but what happens after that?

I will speak to the relevant minister about the Domestic Abuse (Protection) (Scotland) Act 2021 and come back to the committee on how we take the existing legislation into the new act and how we monitor its effectiveness, which has been talked about. I am happy to speak to the relevant minister about how that has been taken forward in the housing context.

When it comes to what we do as we go forward, we are in discussions with Scottish Women’s Aid—for example, on how we make sure that what already exists is embedded into the new housing bill. Part of that will include guidance and training, which, obviously, is required, because, at the moment, as I said, I have mixed experience, as I am sure we all have. A person’s experience depends, for example, on the housing officer that they get, which should not be the case. Making sure that domestic abuse is included is part of the reason for introducing the bill. I am happy to speak to the relevant minister with the responsibility for domestic abuse about writing to the committee on the point that you have mentioned.

That is the most obvious question to ask, I think. For me, though, this is not a case of either/or. Obviously, we have to increase housing supply. Indeed, I made a statement last week on the housing emergency, and I will continue to meet stakeholders to discuss that point.

As I said, I do not think that it is a case of either/or. We need to look at the prevention duties to ensure that we prevent people from getting into the homelessness system in the first place. A key point for me is that prevention duties are already in place in each local authority and in other institutions. Again, the main thing is that this is not a case of either/or. We will probably get into a discussion about the phasing of the implementation of the measures but, over the summer, I will be engaging extensively with stakeholders on and talking to them about implementation; the financial memorandum, which we have discussed previously; and the phasing of these things.

Again, this is not an either/or thing. We need to prevent people from coming into the homelessness system. I can say from my 15 years’ experience as a councillor—other ex-councillors will know this, too—that this was always the biggest issue that we had to deal with. Sometimes we look back and think, “Okay—that, that and that could have been prevented.” As I have said, this is not an either/or, but the timing, the phasing and the resourcing have to be right and we have to stop people coming into the system.

That said, we also have to focus on increasing supply as a means of reducing homelessness and the use of temporary accommodation. The key message to get across, though, is that this is not an either/or.

One of the key things that I asked for when I came into post, 15 or 16 months ago, was the setting up of a ministerial group on homelessness. Ten ministers are taking part in that, and it has already met four times. [Paul McLennan has corrected this contribution. See end of report.] There are ministers with responsibilities on domestic abuse, the Promise, mental health, public health and so on. We have had various discussions with stakeholders on how it could work with one minister having specific responsibilities on domestic abuse and one having specific responsibility for the Promise, for example. The group meets quarterly and it is now reviewing what it needs to do after the first year. It is looking at funding for various projects that might impact on homelessness.

I cannot solve the issue on my own; I need help from ministerial colleagues. The group has met four times. It meets every quarter, and we will continue with that. It has made a real difference. It has had positive feedback from stakeholders who have interacted with us. The group has been in place since I was appointed as housing minister. We will continue to make sure that opportunities in policy development and budgetary processes are maximised. The group has 10 ministers, including me, and we talk about that specific issue. [Paul McLennan has corrected this contribution. See end of report.]

That is something that we would discuss with each individual stakeholder but, if we could get to that situation, that would be helpful. Each organisation might look at the issue in a different way. The key thing is to embed in the culture of each body that way of working with us to prevent homelessness. If we were able to establish a protocol such as the one that you describe, all the better. Again, that would very much depend on the individual stakeholder.