Seòmar agus comataidhean

This is my last wee question on this. Do you hope that some kind of combined statement of intent will emerge from the meeting on Friday, including some specifics about any progress that has been made? Is that an outcome that you hope for?

That is not going to happen.

Thank you so much for coming along. It has been an absolutely fascinating session.

Long Covid was mentioned at the start of the meeting. It would be useful to understand a bit more about the context and, in particular, about the complexity of that issue. We know that it is extremely complex and that a multitude of presenting symptoms are being categorised. A lot of work is being done on that front. Long Covid has certainly moved quite a number of people into the category of being disabled. I want to get a sense of your opinion of the complexity. I am very struck by what has been said thus far about data collection and disaggregation. Will you flesh that out for me?

I would like to know from both of you what your top two asks are of us, as a committee, in two scenarios. A lot of what we have talked about today has recognised the very real challenges that we have with data and with the economic climate and how it feeds into people not getting the multiyear funding that they would like. Recognising that constraint, what are the top two things that you would like to put on the record? Alternatively, if money and control were no object, what would be your top two asks?

That is good to hear. You can be fully confident that I will be asking how, specifically, those steps are bold, audacious and ambitious.

I do not know the data sets in their entirety, so it is hard for me to say that something is missing. That, perhaps, speaks to the problem, because if we do not collect the data routinely, we will not be able to see the complex patterns. In principle, I am asking you to, as a minimum, commit to undertaking a review of when data is disaggregated by gender—and, critically, when it is not—and you could then return to us with a compelling reason why it should not be.

As I said, we all await that report with great interest and anticipation, and, having had Mark Logan before the committee last week, I have high hopes for it.

I have a follow-on question. Are you able to make it compulsory for any agency that receives money from the Scottish Government as part of its fair work agenda—or, indeed, any other business initiative—to routinely collect data disaggregated by gender? I have asked about that a number of times in this committee, so I can tell you categorically that they do not routinely do that, which I find quite shocking.

Two examples spring to mind. I asked whether a business agency routinely disaggregated its research data so that it could understand the breakdown by gender, and the answer was that it did not. I also asked a commerce and development agency whether it routinely did that, and I received the same answer. I would expect that to be done, as a minimum.

I suppose that what I am asking is whether, regardless of Ana Stewart’s review, you agree that, as a minimum, any agency that receives money from the Scottish Government should routinely gather and disaggregate that data.

I completely agree. I agree that it is complex and that it is a case of being careful what you wish for, particularly when it comes to early-stage industries. However, we should look at such an approach with an open mind and stress that agencies will have to do so, too, as a way of shifting the dial. Mark Logan, who appeared before the committee last week, was clear about the fact that the initiatives that are under way are good in and of themselves, but what he emphasised, and what drives me, is that we should start to plant the trees that will effect structural change. Unless we ask such hard questions and start to look much more firmly at conditionality in areas in which we can be clear about, or at least make a good assessment of, the outcomes, we will carry on producing worthy reviews—I agree that reviews such as the Stewart review are worth while—but we will not shift the dial.

Thank you.