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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 December 2025
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Displaying 1887 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

I can see that you are correct with regard to what you say about society and trust. We can take a view on the issue, but we are an advanced economy in all ways. Of course, there will be bad-faith actors, but we have seen that in relation to other areas, too.

My opening question was about the uncertainty around black-box generative AI, where it will be much harder to track what is being done and capture some of the risks—some of which could be insidious, depending on how we are populating the systems. We know that there are concerns about biases being built in—I understand that that is one of your areas of expertise, Professor Schaffer—but do we have a good enough sense of the known unknowns, in that respect? I do not think that anybody can say that we totally understand the situation, because of the exponential rate of change, but are there enough people who are worrying about the possibilities and doing the thinking about them?

Professor Schaffer, you are inclining your head, so I will bring you back in.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

Thank you. Stephen Kerr will ask questions about our next theme.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

Yes, thank you—I appreciate that it is a difficult question.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

I think that we will get on to that aspect.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

Thank you very much to you all. That brings our public session to a close. I really appreciate all the time that you have given up this morning and all the information that you have given us.

11:30 Meeting continued in private until 11:44.  

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, and welcome to the 31st meeting of the Economy and Fair Work Committee in 2025. My name is Michelle Thomson, and I am the deputy convener. Our usual convener, Daniel Johnson, is unable to join us today. We have apologies from Sarah Boyack, and a former committee convener, Claire Baker, is standing in for her—welcome, Claire. Lorna Slater has also given her apologies today.

This is our second evidence session on artificial intelligence. I am delighted to welcome our witnesses: Steven Grier, industry adviser and former director at Microsoft; Professor Mark Schaffer, professor of economics at Heriot-Watt University and fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh; and Heather Thomson, chief executive officer, The Data Lab.

I will begin with some opening questions. Following that—you are probably aware of the format—I will introduce colleagues to focus on areas of interest to them.

Last week, we had quite an optimistic session, in which we talked a lot about opportunities. Today, I want to start by asking about risk and getting a little more meat on the bones. Last week, I asked about the black-box nature of generative AI—we do not know what is going on in there. Today, I would like to get a sense of what our witnesses see as the critical risks in the area, particularly economic risks and risks to the public sector. I invite Professor Schaffer to start—for obvious reasons.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

I can see what you are saying. There is clearly a great deal of potential and I suspect that, as we go through the conversation, there will be more examples of what might happen. You have already given us some useful examples that we might not have thought of.

Heather Thomson, can you answer the same question?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

Steven Grier, do you want to come in now?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

There are, and we might have time to come back to them. Thank you very much.

I will bring in Kevin Stewart for a quick supplementary question before I bring in Gordon MacDonald.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Artificial Intelligence (Economic Potential)

Meeting date: 12 November 2025

Michelle Thomson

I could also see Professor Schaffer shaking his head vigorously at one of your—