Seòmar agus comataidhean

You make an important point about the feedback loop. Thank you.

Good evening. Thank you for joining us at a time that must be very late in your day.

I am thinking about the similarities between Scotland and New Zealand. I often say that the best thing about Scotland is that everybody knows everybody, and the worst thing about it is that everybody knows everybody. We tend to find that we bring in similar representatives and panels, so we work very hard to try to get different people. Sometimes, that is hard because of the size of the pool. Is there a similar issue in New Zealand? If so, to what extent have you considered how that affects effective decision making and quality of delivery?

Following on from that, I note that you have a policy methods toolbox that describes how to use behavioural insights. Will you tell us a bit more about that? What training do people go through? I am particularly interested in how you avoid groupthink and the adverse influence of power structures, where the inclination is always to accede to the person in the level above you in the hierarchy. How embedded are those behavioural insights, and how well trained and kept up to speed are the people who use them?

Thank you.

I am referring to the pool of people whom we consult for external evidence.

That leads on to my last question about culture. Culture is a kind of summing up of a whole bunch of behaviours. When you were developing your methodology in 2020, did you step back and actively look at the culture of how you deliver change? Did you compare it with other countries? What findings remain constant a few years down the track?

I am aware of time, convener, but perhaps James Black can just finish off with any comments on risk and uncertainty in general.

I knew that you would.

James Black and Ben Thurman, what are your reflections on how the culture within a programme or policy development affects outcomes?

Good morning, and thanks for attending the meeting.

Following on from the area of challenge that James Black highlighted, I am interested in reflections on culture. The Audit Scotland submission referenced issues around the early learning and childcare policy. It set out that there was not a proper options analysis of the potential impact against cost, no evidence of improved outcomes, and so on. That is the what, but I want to explore why and to what extent those particular issues were related to that programme or divisional culture and, in general terms, how culture affects decision making. I will start off with Mark Taylor.