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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 April 2025
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Displaying 1495 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

How did I know that that comment was going to come up? Thank you, convener. [Laughter.]

I want to ask about a couple of interrelated areas. The previous panel expressed some concern about offset—or set-off, as I think you describe it—and called it heavy handed. The point that I made to them was that a principled approach is surely being established in anticipation of further taxes being devolved in order to ensure that, where people owe tax, we are able to claw it back. Am I correct in that assumption?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

Maybe it does. I am not trying to get to any slam dunk; I am genuinely trying to understand. You have given me more helpful insight, although I suspect that I have further to go to bottom out some of this stuff. Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

That is helpful. Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

I have just one small question, which arguably follows on from those of the convener and Michael Marra. Mr Doak, in your submission, you noted that

“Significant behaviour change is unlikely unless the Scottish Government decides to change the rate drastically, and even then there isn’t an obvious supply of alternative materials available.”

I know that Mr Marra has been touching on this, but I am still not sure that I have a clear sense of it. Mr Marra made a good point about red chips and aggregate that is specific to Scotland, but I am still not clear on the detail of different aggregate types and what overall potential price increases they could stand, although, as everyone has said, there are no plans for that on the table.

I wonder whether you could help me understand a bit more. As you point out correctly, English producers might be keen to exploit any substantial rate increases in Scotland; we all understand that. However the devil surely must be in the detail. I know that we have danced around the issue a bit with two separate questions, but if you could help me understand a bit more, that would be helpful.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

You are talking about secondary aggregates. That is what I was misunderstanding.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

Good morning. I will follow up on a point that Liz Smith made. I have raised with the Deputy First Minister a question about inefficiency related to the annual budget process and significant in-year changes. It seems to me that that must incur a significant amount of sunk costs in redoing and repositioning things, and so on. Am I right in having that perception, and is it also your perception?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

You have set out what I thought, and very clearly. I suppose the point that I am making is that there is a cost to the inefficiency. If you were working in a law firm, you would itemise every hour to say what goes to this client and what goes to that client. Have you ever considered collecting the cost of inefficiency as fiscal events occur, and of late notification? A number being put on that inefficiency could very well be quite compelling.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

I will watch that with interest.

My last point comes back to a question that I previously asked you about police pensions and the extent to which the increase in them—and, therefore, provision for them—came about a result of Covid-19. I thank you for your reply, in which I think you pointed out—and I am paraphrasing here—that that was not due to Covid-19 but was the result of the move from a final salary to a career average pension scheme. The legal challenge in that respect will also apply to other public sector professionals such as teachers, because they face the same issue, but the fact is that we have seen a difference with regard to the rate at which police officers are retiring. As a result, the change to the provision—compared with that of, say, teachers—was not necessarily entirely due to the change to the police’s pension arrangements, given that it did not equally apply to teachers. Do you have any reflections on that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Michelle Thomson

You are correctly introducing another complexity for the bill, but that is good because that is what we want to tease out. Have we got the data to draw on to arrive at some of these decisions? I am not sure what data your members will routinely gather and submit as part of the existing processes that tease out all the different areas that the Scottish Government will have.