Skip to main content
Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 1677 contributions

|

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Mr Campbell, you mentioned the interface with Government, and you both had terms of reference set for your work. In our evidence session last week, we heard from the Scottish Police Federation that, despite it making clear its concerns about the opportunity costs, which the convener outlined, the dialogue was very limited once things were set in train.

I appreciate the tension in the situation. However, if a cabinet secretary has triggered an inquiry, they must surely have an on-going interest in its implications, even if they cannot get involved or be seen to be involved, for very good reasons that I understand. What would you expect a cabinet secretary who has instructed that an inquiry be undertaken to do during it? Would you expect interest from them during the inquiry or only once it has been completed? As the chair of an inquiry, would you expect them to tell you what you have to do and then go away and only come back years later?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Good morning to both Johns. Thank you for joining us. Continuing on similar themes, I suspect, I want to explore a little more the culture of the legal fraternity in such inquiries. Of course, one makes the assumption that all lawyers operate from complete integrity and ethics. That is one view: that they provide good works. The other view, potentially, is that inquiries are a racket whereby certain law firms and lawyers have found a very good way of making money. Particularly if they build up a reputation, they can roll from public inquiry to public inquiry. I know that that sounds contentious, but I want to explore your understanding of the tension between those two positions, because there is clearly at least a possibility that such a situation may occur.

What is your thinking on that? Critically, is the legal profession able to look at itself and say, “This isn’t a great look,” if there is even a sense that that might be the case?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

However, you recognise my point that that could occur—that, where there is no proper financial governance as we would understand it, it is in the interest of lawyers, or some lawyers, to prolong an inquiry because there is a direct correlation with more billable hours for them, to put it simply. Indeed, many law firms reward their lawyers according to the number of billable hours that they put through on a particular—

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

I have a final question on costs. John Campbell, the convener has already asked you about this. You said in your submission that you do not see that it is necessary to publish individuals’ costs, and I understand the sensitivity around that. However, if you were looking to effect change, although there might be some initial pain if somebody’s costs are put in the public domain, that would very swiftly change behaviours. I am interested in your thoughts.

In all of these cases, if I were coming in to consult, I would ask what you could do to immediately make a difference and to start to shift the culture. Publishing that information seems to be one thing that could be done. Tell me a really good reason why, if we are starting to get a proper focus on costs and not just allowing for massive cost overruns, we would not actively seek to put the cost of everybody involved in a public inquiry in the public domain, in exactly the same way as our salaries go into the public domain and we must declare everything.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Do you want to comment on that, Mr Campbell?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

But it is public money—that is the difference.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

I am just asking you to speak for yourself.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

What is your direct experience, Mr Campbell?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

Thank you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Scottish Public Inquiries (Cost-effectiveness)

Meeting date: 17 June 2025

Michelle Thomson

That speaks to a cultural issue, does it not, John Sturrock?