Seòmar agus comataidhean

Good morning. Deputy First Minister, thank you for doing your opening statement in Gaelic—I really appreciate that.

I will follow on from Ruth Maguire’s question before I move on to my substantive questions. In your opinion, to what extent is this a framing bill, rather than a framework bill, that enables advancement of culture, recognition and, arguably, reward, particularly when you look at the early-stage pulling together of all the different Scots that we have?

Good morning, and thank you for joining us. I will pick up on a couple of points that the convener has already asked about. I, too, seem to have a marginal sign of a misspent weekend in terms of going through the bill handbook and specifically looking at what is stated on financial memorandums. The point is about what, not how. To return to Jackie McAllister’s comment about training, I personally would be interested in hearing more detail about the new training that is planned and what gaps you are seeing being filled. It is a specialism, and the committee has twigged that people have not been across this in the way that they should have been.

Thinking about framework bills, which we have also touched on, the permanent secretary made a comment about the use of agile methodologies and how that can impact on the rigour of the numbers that are provided. I want to understand how you manage the risk. In using framework bills, there is a risk that any figures provided, even if we have much better quality of FMs, will be fundamentally out of sync. I would appreciate your comments on how you are addressing that in the light of significant public sector constraints.

Thank you. I want to touch on where we are on the issue of whole-of-Government accounts. In “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Government Consolidated Accounts”, the Auditor General said:

“The continuing absence of a full public sector account reduces the transparency and accountability over public spending, assets and liabilities in Scotland.”

It is a fundamental issue. We had a statement of intent in 2016. Where are we now on whole-of-Government accounts?

Thank you. My final question is about an issue on which I want to get a sense of your thinking. I have been doing work to examine the implications, or rather the risks, of looking at some of the work that we need to do to get to net zero in isolation, without taking cognisance of the financial elements. Part of the reason for why we have landed where we have is that while this Parliament can look at the issue from a policy perspective, much of the financial side is reserved. There seems to be a clear mismatch.

I always bring to mind the fact that this is a deeply serious issue. Recently, the Scottish Fiscal Commission, drawing on information from the Office for Budget Responsibility, stated that we can expect the debt to gross domestic product ratio to be at 289 per cent as a result of funding all these projects. How do you think that we will be able to square that off? We will not be able to do it without the money if we end up in a position—as you outlined in relation to the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill, for example—where we cannot move forward. That is one small example, but it strikes me that the issue is one that is not being talked about much. We will not be able to make progress on it without considering the financial structuring and so on.

I have a couple more questions—thank you for bearing with me. I would like to get a sense of things in the light of the new governmental structure and the new ministers—I am thinking, in particular, of Ivan McKee. Have you had any discussions thus far about public sector reform? Have you been given a steer on what he might be looking to do, given that we have all recognised that public sector reform needs to be undertaken? For example, the number of quangos that we have seems way out of kilter with the wider fiscal environment. Have you managed to have any initial discussions about what is intended?

I have one quick question. Thank you very much for being here. It has been an extremely informative session.

I was particularly taken by Lynda Towers’s compelling articulation of the considerations of different types of rights. As you know, we spoke to the permanent secretary in our earlier session. The committee has struggled to get people to think beyond their own silos—they think that their commission or commissioner is good—and look at things across the piece. My question is for Lynda Towers only. If the Government is advocating for the creation of a particular commissioner, how should things be looked at across the piece, as you so clearly articulated?

I am sorry, but other members want to come in.

If you do not mind me interrupting, the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill is a good example, because of the uncertainty of funding. It is more appropriate to concentrate on bills where there is not that same uncertainty. For example, with the National Care Service (Scotland) Bill, I recognise that the bill team and the minister did a lot of work to address our concerns around the FM and so on, but we still face the risk that there will be a considerable uptick in spend that the Parliament and members will have much more limited opportunity to scrutinise. The details that you have outlined were about how you will monitor and the general governance. That may well address your concern, but it does not address our concern as to how we scrutinise things. What risks therein have you articulated and how are you managing them?

I certainly look forward to hearing from you, with a focus on the generic risks and so on rather than the specific ones, because we are seeing a pattern emerging.

I will move on. I want to ask your thoughts on an issue relating to the emergency budget review. I have previously raised a question about the moneys from the ScotWind auction being used for day-to-day revenue. From the point of view of fiscal sustainability, is the fact that the £700 million and the £56 million have been folded in a lost opportunity to start to embed more fiscal sustainability?

I think that what you are articulating is that there is a renewed appetite for such reform. Is that correct?