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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 April 2025
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Displaying 1499 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 26 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

That is helpful. My last question concerns the energy suppliers. Are people getting the support that they need from the suppliers? We have covered extensively the support that they need from Government. Are they getting the support that they need, from what you are picking up?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

When do you anticipate baselining your estimated costs, so that you can nail your colours to the mast a bit more? At what point will that occur?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

To build on that, we talked earlier about economies of scale. I think that Paul Manning mentioned the loss of economies of scale to local government. However, a corollary of that is the benefit of economies of scale to the Scottish Government. I want to ask about that because, all the way through this session, we have commented on public sector funding and our being in a precarious position, and we do that continually.

What specific economies of scale can you see with at least some of the proposals for the Scottish Government and therefore the public purse? It strikes me—I have put this on the record before—that having 32 local authorities with duplicate functions across the board is not necessarily the most efficient way of working. I am interested in your thoughts about where the economies of scale are for the Scottish Government rather than the disbenefit of economies of scale for you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

The financial memorandum does not mention economies of scale.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

Does Sharon Wearing want to answer either of my questions?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

My last question is on the process and the production of the financial memorandum. It has to be produced alongside the bill—that is a matter of process in the Parliament. However, it strikes me that we are talking about a very large bill. Somebody referred to colleges earlier; I imagine that there were similar issues with them. The issue is absolutely huge, and I cannot see how a financial memorandum can be produced at this point in time with any degree of accuracy whatsoever, when there are still huge questions about the requirements and the enactment.

During the earlier panel session, I asked how we as a committee will ensure that there is adequate financial scrutiny. That is our primary purpose. I got back the assurance that the resultant business cases, which would contain risk assessments, would be brought forward to us. My question to you, from the other side, is whether that will be adequate. I think that we all agree that there are significant gaps in the financial memorandum as it stands. From a financial scrutiny perspective, will the process in the financial memorandum work for something of that scale?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

Do Sarah Watters or Sharon Wearing want to add to that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

I have a quick supplementary on the pension schemes. Perhaps I do not understand the situation correctly, but I think that the existing schemes are defined benefit schemes rather than defined contribution schemes. Is that right?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

I fully accept that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 25 October 2022

Michelle Thomson

Correct. I absolutely agree with you. My point is that, in getting to the detail around the financial memorandum, given that we are talking about defined benefit pensions, the liability for which will lie with whoever takes them on, getting those costed up would be a pretty big consideration. That liability consideration is a worry for every defined benefit pension scheme, so the transfer of that liability might be quite beneficial, but that is a minor point.