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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 April 2025
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Displaying 1499 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Chief Entrepreneurial Adviser to the Scottish Government

Meeting date: 11 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

I very much look forward to reading the review. I have one more question, which takes us back to where we started. The first thing that you mentioned was culture. Thus far, you have not reflected much on attitudes to risk and our cultural perception of failure. Will you give us your reflections on that? I know that you said at the beginning that culture can be changed easily, but it seems to me that our appetite for and attitude to risk is deeply ingrained, as is how we perceive failure, which, of course, in business terms, is simply learning. I would like some finishing reflections on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

If I asked you whether this is a gender-friendly Parliament in all its facets, I assume that you would say that it is. I would then challenge you to say how you know that that is the case.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

I want to almost turn the matter on its head. You are describing some collection and some output, which, if you chose to, you could pull into one report on one facet. I suppose that I am asking when you last produced—or whether you have ever produced—a similar report entirely from the point of view of the female population in every single facet. Have you ever considered doing something like that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

I have every sympathy with the situation in which the Deputy First Minister finds himself while he is operating as the finance secretary. However, I am asking for clarity from a business investment point of view. Businesses will be determining at what point they will seek to make investments and therefore will need to know what the Scottish Government’s appetite is for that, given the constraints that you have outlined. Do you plan to make further announcements to give much-needed certainty to various business sectors, of which construction is one?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

I want to pick up on the point about behaviour change and I want to make two more points. Attempts to model behaviour change must be increasingly complex, given the complexity of the existing fiscal framework and the wider economic environment. Are the models that you use evolving? Are they fit for purpose? That was a slightly technical question.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

Michelle Hegarty, do you want to add something? Okay, you are feeling confident. I am sure that the committee will scrutinise that.

I will pick up on something else. Jackson Carlaw, you are probably pleased that we are not talking about the information technology system today. I felt more than a little sympathy for you last time we met, because you are accountable—rather than responsible—for the operation of that huge outfit.

I have two questions. You are probably aware that, under our remit for public administration, the committee will be looking at decision making, as a discipline in and of itself, within the Scottish Government. I have recently seen examples of risk assessment decisions being made, based on the probability of an adverse outcome, but looking at the impact on only one key stakeholder group. That is an obvious example. Given that you are accountable, Jackson, and that there are professional staff in place, how do you assess your accountability? How do you know that the decision making is as robust as it can be? I appreciate that you are doing a very good job on behalf of all parliamentarians, but you are quite exposed. How do you assess that risk to yourself? You get it in the neck if things go slightly awry.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

I utterly appreciate and understand that; based on my previous career, I would consider what you are describing as the norm and what I would expect to see in place. I am probing the fact that where you have collaborative bodies that work well together and people are generally nice and get on well, it introduces a risk of groupthink, where insufficient challenge creeps in over a period, just because people are nice and believe that each side is doing a professional piece of work. There is no reason why they would not think so. That may well come up again in our decision-making inquiry.

How robustly do you ensure healthy tension as a body, given that that is absolutely necessary and can diminish over time in any organisation? Are you actively putting that at the forefront? I am thinking particularly of you, Jackson, given that you are accountable and it is your neck on the line.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

My next question concerns the disaggregation of data, which is a theme that I keep following. I ask organisations, including the SPCB, whether they routinely disaggregate all the data that they collect by sex, because we cannot effect change without that. However, every time I ask that question of any body, I find that the answer is no. They do not routinely disaggregate the data. If we do not do that, how can we effect change to ensure parity? I put that same question to you.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, and thank you for attending today. I echo Jackson Carlaw’s comments about the staff. The operation of the Parliament is a huge undertaking: many people do not appreciate that. I will happily take up the offer of a tour of the basement and promise not to press any red buttons.

Slightly unusually, I start by going back to Brexit and taking issue with the convener. If I were in a similar position to you, I would need to give careful consideration to the number of full-time equivalent posts required for forthcoming work on Brexit. I know from anecdotal conversations with the clerks that the number of legislative consent memorandums, and the complexity and scrutiny of that work, has been quite considerable in the past year. When I talk about retained European Union law and the back-end scrutiny of that in the coming year, that is usually greeted by horror from the clerks whom I speak to, because so much is unknown.

I am not certain about the specific additional head count provision that you have made for Brexit, given that retained EU law might lead to circa 4,000 pieces of legislation folding. I am sure that it will not come to that, but the number is certainly considerable. What is the specific head count and how confident are you in the provision of that head count?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 10 January 2023

Michelle Thomson

Where you collect data, do you routinely disaggregate it for every data item? The issue flows into your procurement policy and so on. Only by collecting data can we start to move that forward.

10:45