Official Report 1106KB pdf
Education and Skills
Good afternoon. The first item of business this afternoon is portfolio questions on education and skills. I remind members that questions 2 and 7 have been grouped together, so I will take any supplementary questions after both substantive questions have been asked. Any member looking to ask a supplementary should press their request-to-speak button during the relevant question.
Mobile Phones in Classrooms (Guidance)
To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to update its guidance on the use of mobile phones in classrooms. (S6O-04370)
The Scottish Government published updated mobile phone guidance in August. The guidance empowers headteachers to take the steps that they see fit to limit the use of mobile phones in their schools. That includes implementing full bans if they feel that that is required. A number of schools have updated or are reviewing their policies in the light of the national guidance, which has now been in place for seven months.
I thank the cabinet secretary for that response. Parents from my area of Bearsden have reached out to say that current guidance on the use of mobile phones does not go far enough, as phones can be used to distribute harmful content and distract pupils during class time. Even more shockingly, a teacher that I spoke to said that phones were used to film female pupils using unisex toilets.
Parents do not get to choose what school their children go to and what policy is in place on mobile phones. I have stood here many times asking the Scottish Government why it is unwilling to act on that, why it refuses to listen to the voices of the many concerned parents and why it seems content to fail Scotland’s pupils—
Your question, Ms Gosal.
I will once again ask the cabinet secretary if she will listen to reason and ban the use of mobile phones in schools—
Cabinet secretary.
—and make sure that schools—
Cabinet secretary.
—have single-sex toilets.
As cabinet secretary—
Hold on, cabinet secretary.
Ms Gosal, it was quite clear that I had asked you to come to your question. You were well over the time limit for questions. I had called the cabinet secretary to speak. At that point, I would be grateful if you resumed your seat.
Cabinet secretary, please continue.
Thank you, Presiding Officer. It is because, as cabinet secretary, I have listened to parents and carers and teachers that we updated our mobile phone guidance in August last year, only seven months ago. In that updated guidance, I have gone as far as I am able to towards a full-scale ban. I remind the member that the Scottish Government cannot unilaterally ban mobile phones. Scottish ministers do not have the power to do that.
I hear the passion from Ms Gosal on the subject of the use of mobile phones in schools. I had to contend with it myself as a teacher. I recognise the challenge. I invite the member to interrogate the updated guidance that was published seven months ago.
A range of schools across Scotland already have a full-scale ban, but some headteachers argue that a more nuanced approach is more suitable for their school. Fundamentally, my position as cabinet secretary is that I trust Scotland’s headteachers to get it right for the children whom we entrust to their care every day. If Ms Gosal has a specific concern in relation to the updated guidance that we published in August, I would be more than happy to correspond with her or to meet her on that point.
I will need briefer questions but also briefer responses, cabinet secretary.
I acknowledge the updated guidance. Where is the voice of young people in the debate and how should schools, local authorities and Governments listen to young people, who are most impacted by the misuse of mobile phones in schools?
It is hugely important that we listen to the views of young people in relation to this issue. The school at which we launched the updated guidance in August had taken a dynamic approach to involving the children—and their classroom teachers—in mining their own mobile phone use to analyse the amount of time that they all spent online. As a result of that process, the school got buy-in from the pupils, the parents and carers, and the teaching staff. Consulting children on changing policies that will ultimately impact them is hugely important.
In the light of the remarkable improvements at Berwickshire high school, where banning mobile phones in all school buildings has led to rising attainment, better behaviour and a significant reduction in bullying, does the minister not agree that mobile-free learning environments have clear educational benefits? I believe—and I think that many across the chamber agree—
I call the cabinet secretary.
—that it should be the national policy—
Cabinet secretary.
—on mobile phones.
Ash Regan, please resume your seat. I make the same point to you as I made to Ms Gosal: when I have called somebody else to speak, you need to resume your seat.
I agree that having a mobile phone-free learning environment can have educational benefits, but I remind Ms Regan, as I have reminded Ms Gosal, that the Government cannot unilaterally ban mobile phones. The guidance that we published in August goes as far as we are able to at the current time. If Ms Regan would like to correspond with me on the issue, about which she feels passionately, I am more than happy to write to her or meet her.
Dyslexia Support (Schools)
To ask the Scottish Government what plans it has to expand dyslexia support in schools, to remove any barriers for children who need the right support to thrive. (S6O-04371)
We are committed to improving the experiences of children and young people with dyslexia. The Education (Additional Support for Learning) (Scotland) Act 2004 places duties on education authorities to identify, provide for and review the additional support needs of their pupils. Our national approach to dyslexia focuses on early identification. We are working with Dyslexia Scotland and local government to continue to improve the frequency and consistency of early identification through the use of the addressing dyslexia toolkit and the dyslexia identification pathway. The 2025-26 budget also sets out an additional £29 million of investment for ASN, which I hope will be welcomed by members.
Investment and meaningful support for dyslexic individuals and young people with additional support needs are fundamental to getting it right for every child, which is an important commitment made by this Government. However, too many dyslexic children are slipping through the net. That has been highlighted in a report that was published by Dyslexia Scotland in collaboration with the University of Glasgow. Can the minister confirm whether the recommendations in that report will be considered?
I agree that the findings in the recent report are concerning, and we agree that those with dyslexia should be supported in educational and professional settings. At the end of last year, I visited Roseburn primary school to see how enhanced support for learners with dyslexia from teachers and pupil support staff with the right skills and knowledge has made a huge difference in ensuring that children and young people with dyslexia are supported appropriately.
We are currently exploring options to strengthen the existing opportunities for our education staff to take part in professional development on additional support for learning, including on dyslexia. We have also committed to undertaking an analysis of the learning hours that are attributed to additional support for learning content in our initial teacher education programmes across Scotland.
Dyslexia Support (Pupils)
To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to support school pupils with dyslexia. (S6O-04376)
As part of our partnership approach to improve the educational experience of children and young people with dyslexia, we work closely with Dyslexia Scotland and Education Scotland to support their work with local authorities and schools. The Scottish Government provides grant funding of £200,000 a year to Dyslexia Scotland to deliver work that has a positive and enabling impact on educational provision for children with dyslexia and those who support them.
I recently joined the cross-party group on dyslexia, and I take this opportunity to pay tribute to the work that it does. I have also had some positive discussions with Paul McNeill, who is an ambassador for Dyslexia Scotland, about the need for further supports for children in schools. On that note, will the cabinet secretary consider convening or being part of a round-table discussion including Dyslexia Scotland, Education Scotland, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland and any other relevant stakeholders to agree on a framework solution to support dyslexic children better in our education system?
I very much recognise that more work needs to be done to ensure that consistent, appropriate and timely support is in place for our children and young people with dyslexia across Scotland. Following my meeting with Dyslexia Scotland in January, I discussed the matter with COSLA, and I have agreed to issue a joint letter to all education authorities on best practice for supporting children and young people. That will include information on the value of adopting the agreed Scottish working definition of dyslexia, the dyslexia identification pathway within the toolkit, the free professional learning modules that are available for teachers to enhance their knowledge and skills and the professional recognition programme on dyslexia and inclusive practice. I would be happy to keep members and the cross-party group informed of the progress in that area.
Today’s Audit Scotland report on additional support for learning sets out a pretty challenging picture for teachers and schools. The report states that the Scottish Government and councils must fundamentally rethink how they plan, fund and staff additional support for learning as part of core school education in Scotland. Does the Scottish Government accept the recommendations in the report, and will ministers urgently come forward with a plan on how the recommendations will now be actioned?
I welcome Audit Scotland’s report on additional support for learning. It is challenging to the Government, and I accept that challenge as Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills. I want to meet the Auditor General alongside COSLA to ensure that we have a partnership approach to responding to the challenge that is put to the Government.
I hope that Miles Briggs recognises the seriousness with which I take the report in relation not only to our investment in additional support for learning but to the experience of parents, carers, children and young people on the ground. To my mind, we need to better understand that, and that is one of the critiques in the report.
There is an issue about the transparency of the spend and the granularity of how we quantify that. I am interested in pursuing that issue further with the Auditor General, because he raises a really important point about public spending, and, of course, significant funding is being provided to support additional support needs in our schools.
I welcome the challenge, and I will continue to engage with the Auditor General on it and will be more than happy to engage with Mr Briggs on the matter, too.
University of Dundee
To ask the Scottish Government what recent discussions it has had with the Scottish Funding Council regarding the University of Dundee. (S6O-04372)
Along with my officials, I have been in regular contact with the Scottish Funding Council on the situation at the University of Dundee. In recent weeks, I have also met the senior management team at the university.
I fully understand that this is an anxious time for staff and students, but it is imperative that the university brings forward a robust financial recovery plan and that it does so in close and on-going engagement with staff, in line with fair work principles.
The Funding Council will undertake detailed expert analysis of the university’s financial recovery plan once it is finalised, and will provide advice to the Scottish Government on the next steps to support the university.
Mr Marra will, of course, be aware that the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government set out the Government’s commitment to support our universities, including the University of Dundee, with £15 million of financial transactions that will be available to the SFC.
What Parliament and the people in Dundee really need to know is the status of the £15 million loan that was set out in the chamber by the cabinet secretary. From my engagements with the university, I know that that money will not touch the sides of the black hole. Can the minister lay out clearly what figures he has seen that led his Government to announce that particular sum of money to Parliament on Tuesday?
Right now, it is difficult to be definitive on the way forward for the University of Dundee, for a variety of reasons—not the least of which is the finalising of the financial recovery plan, which, as I indicated, the SFC will consider. The SFC is actively engaged with the institution on receiving, in the first instance, a high-level and working draft that can be examined.
I understand absolutely the frustration and anger of staff and students about the time that it has taken to provide transparency on the scale and nature of the financial problems, how they arose and how it is proposed that they will be addressed.
Equally, it is important that the picture that emerges is entirely accurate, and that the proposed recovery plan has the potential to restore the university to a sustainable position and minimise redundancies, as far as possible. The plan should also seek to ensure that the institution’s significant contribution both to the local economy and to the overall higher education and research offer in Scotland is maintained.
I am conscious of the time, but this week’s announcement in the budget of the provision of additional funding to the SFC for the purpose of supporting institutions such as the University of Dundee is a clear sign that the Government is prepared to support provision of assistance that will enable the SFC to help the University of Dundee through its immediate challenges, and afford it breathing space to shape a recovery plan that is credible in terms of delivery. The SFC will assess matters further as the information that I mentioned earlier comes forward.
A number of colleagues want to ask supplementary questions, so they will need to be brief. On the back of that latest response, the minister’s answers will need to be a bit briefer, too.
Unlike Mr Marra, I not only welcome the £15 million funding, but I voted for it. It is really important that we develop a recovery plan that supports the University of Dundee’s reputation as a global centre of excellence in teaching and research. That has to be done in collaboration with the staff and workforce. Does the minister agree?
I do agree with that. Mr FitzPatrick will recognise that a process is being worked through. I actively encourage the university and trade unions to engage constructively in dialogue in order to seek a resolution in all that is happening. To be clear, consultation should include being open to considering any credible alternative cost-saving measures that are brought forward as part of the process.
The SFC loan will go almost entirely to the University of Dundee. This week, Steve Olivier of Robert Gordon University warned that institutions face a “major existential threat” due to “significant” underfunding. Neil Cowie at North East Scotland College—NESCol—said:
“We’re constantly being asked to do more with less, and that is simply not sustainable.”
What help will be announced for such institutions? Will the minister risk the “existential threat” becoming reality?
In his question, Liam Kerr did not mention Sir Peter Mathieson of the University of Edinburgh, who made a number of points about the challenges that his institution faces. He particularly highlighted the contribution that previous Tory United Kingdom Government policies and immigration rhetoric have made to the fall in international student numbers, which is exacerbating the problems that our institutions face. There is a raft of challenges.
In answer to the specific question, I say that the SFC and the Scottish Government are alive to the challenges and are engaging with the university sector on the challenges that it faces.
To follow on from Michael Marra’s question, I am interested in how the £15 million amount was alighted on. If the plan that is developed by the university indicates that more money is required in order to secure a smooth transition, will the minister make the argument to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government and the First Minister that more money should be made available to avoid big job losses?
As I said to Michael Marra, the announcement earlier this week was predicated on an approach that seeks to provide the University of Dundee with breathing space to produce a credible plan for its recovery. As I also said to Michael Marra, on the back of that information—I have other information coming forward—the SFC will assess what is put in front of it and consider how we will proceed from there.
Fair work principles are central to good workplace conditions and culture, but with trade unions continuing to be excluded from meaningful engagement and participation in development of the recovery plan, the university executive group is not upholding those principles. Is it the minister’s expectation that staff will be involved in development of the recovery plan and not just presented with it after it has been drawn up by others?
As I said earlier, I expect that a draft recovery plan will come forward. At that point, I expect staff representatives to be afforded the opportunity to make what will, I hope, be credible alternative proposals, which should be given appropriate consideration.
Additional Support Needs (Motherwell and Wishaw)
To ask the Scottish Government how it is supporting pupils with additional support needs in the Motherwell and Wishaw constituency. (S6O-04373)
Local authorities oversee the delivery of education and have a statutory duty to identify, provide for and review their support for pupils with additional support needs.
Spending on additional support for learning by local authorities reached a record high of more than £1 billion in 2023-24. In addition, the 2025-26 budget sets out a further £29 million of additional investment for ASN. Funding from that will go to councils across Scotland, including North Lanarkshire Council, and it will support local and national programmes that are focused on recruitment and retention in the ASN workforce.
I thank the cabinet secretary for her answer and for underlining that the onus is on the local authority to identify the pupils.
However, casework that is coming through my office indicates that many parents and carers in Motherwell and Wishaw are not aware of co-ordinated support plans. They are being offered a personal plan, an education plan or a getting it right for every child plan—any plan that does not have the statutory underpinning of a co-ordinated support plan. Will the cabinet secretary outline the importance of the local authority making CSP arrangements a priority for children and young people with additional support needs in my constituency? How can parents address the issue?
Our education authorities have a legal duty to have arrangements in place to identify children and young people with additional support needs who require a co-ordinated support plan. Arrangements for a CSP need to be put in place to enable the crucial individual support and interventions to be planned in a co-ordinated way, where we have multiple agencies working together to support a child or young person.
Members will be aware that the Education, Children and Young People Committee carried out an inquiry into additional support for learning last year. In response, I committed to including in the refreshed additional support for learning code of practice further clarity on the relationships between the CSP and other plans within a staged intervention model. That is hugely important in relation to communication with parents and carers.
As part of our work through the ASL action plan, we are also developing for children, young people, parents and carers a national professional learning resource and accessible information and guidance on CSPs.
Today’s Audit Scotland report said of the Government’s project board that it has made “limited progress” and that the action plan
“does not address resourcing issues”.
Predictably, the cabinet secretary has just passed the buck to local authorities; however, on that, the report said that funding allocations
“for councils do not reflect the ASL legislation, the presumption of mainstreaming and the continued growth in recorded additional support needs.”
What on earth is the cabinet secretary and her team doing, and when she will take responsibility for dismally failing Scotland’s children with additional support needs?
I regret the tone of that question. There are real challenges in Scotland’s schools at the current time, and it would be far more beneficial for Scotland’s children and young people if parties were able to work together to respond to the challenges.
I heard Pam Duncan-Glancy complain about resources. I remind her that she and her party chose to abstain on the motion on the Scottish Government’s budget, which provided for—[Interruption.]—an extra £29 million of investment for additional support needs. If she wants to come to the chamber and complain about resourcing, she might want to change her vote in the future to support for extra investment in order to ensure that it goes to those who need it most.
Forth Valley College Skills Transition Centre
To ask the Scottish Government what role the skills transition centre at Forth Valley College will play in protecting and redeploying the skills base, and providing further training opportunities for a just transition of workers in the Grangemouth chemical cluster. (S6O-04374)
We have been clear that every measure must be taken to support the workforce at Grangemouth. The skills transition centre is the first project to be delivered through the Falkirk and Grangemouth growth deal, with £4 million of investment from the Scottish Government.
The centre will provide state-of-the-art equipment and facilities for Forth Valley College to provide training, both now and for future generations, to respond to the needs of Grangemouth and the emerging sectors as part of the net zero transition. The college is a critical partner for us as the provider of the skills intervention funding for the refinery workforce.
Given the leading role of Forth Valley College in the skills transition process, it will be vitally important that the college can assess capacity and ensure that it is in place to deliver on demand and at pace. How is the Scottish Government supporting the college to ensure delivery?
Forth Valley College was identified as the lead partner for the skills transition centre because of its ability to deliver in response to the transitioning workforce. We look forward to continuing to develop that offering in the months ahead. We are actively working with Forth Valley College and wider partners across the Grangemouth future industry board to understand what additional skills-focused activity is needed and exactly how it can be provided, because we must ensure that whatever is required is available.
Violence in Schools
To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on what action it is taking to deal with violence in schools. (S6O-04375)
Violence towards pupils or school staff is completely unacceptable. We published our joint action plan with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities last August. The plan sets out 20 actions to be taken by 2027, including a number of actions to reduce violence in our schools.
We have published new guidance on gender-based violence, updated our mobile phone guidance and our anti-bullying guidance, and provided extra funding to help support the training of support staff, who often deal with the most challenging behaviour in our schools. We committed to report annually on progress of delivery against the plan. The first progress report will be published in the coming weeks.
Although violence in schools is rising, the Scottish National Party has left teachers, parents and the police feeling powerless to help young victims, whereas violent pupils feel safe in the knowledge that they are unlikely to face significant consequences.
At a recent summit on youth violence, young people who were victims told us that they felt forgotten. They had to change classes, restrict their movements and change their subject choices, while the perpetrators faced no consequences for their actions.
Schools should be places of learning, not places of living in fear. What specific actions has the Scottish Government taken since that summit to improve the safety of our youngsters in schools and to give teachers the power that they need to remove those who are causing disruption?
I thank Sharon Dowey for her question. She and I attended the same summit and heard the same stories, and I very much recognise the challenge. I absolutely agree with her that our schools should be places of learning. Most schools are places of learning, every single day, but I accept that there are challenges in some of our schools and classrooms. We need to respond to that challenge as a Government, but also at local level.
Sharon Dowey’s point relates to consequences. I want to put on the record that our existing policy framework, including our national policy on exclusion, does not prevent the use of consequences. However, we have heard consistently, including at the summit that she and I both attended, that that is not necessarily people’s experience on the ground.
As I alluded to in my initial response, in the coming weeks we will provide an update to the action plan that I published in August, and it will address consequences. I think that that will give Sharon Dowey greater clarity on consequences. However, I am happy to meet her on the issue, because the challenge that she and I heard about at the summit was very real. It is important that the Government and local government respond accordingly to that challenge.
I apologise to those who are seeking to ask supplementaries on that question—we do not have time.
Employer NICs (Early Learning and Childcare)
To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of the impact of the rise in employer national insurance contributions on local authority partnership early learning and childcare settings. (S6O-04377)
Through my regular engagement with the childcare sector, I am keenly aware of the concerns about the United Kingdom Government’s changes to employer national insurance contributions. Our estimates indicate that those changes will add £5 million per year to partner providers’ costs for the delivery of funded ELC.
The First Minister and the president of the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities welcomed the support of childcare sector representatives when they wrote to the chancellor in January, calling again for the Treasury to meet the costs for Scottish public services in full. The Scottish Government will continue to advocate for the interests of funded ELC providers at every opportunity.
A partnership nursery in my Rutherglen constituency has estimated that the impact of changes to national insurance, coupled with wage rises that its staff deserve, will cost approximately £2,500 per employee. Does the minister agree that it is deeply regrettable that the Labour UK Government voted specifically to exclude an exemption from the rise in employer national insurance contributions for early learning and childcare settings—thereby adding significantly to their costs—especially given their vital contribution to the education of Scotland’s children?
Absolutely. I fully agree that there is much to regret in the UK Government’s increase in employer national insurance contributions and fully appreciate the concern among providers in relation to that rise in costs.
Early learning and childcare is only one of many vital public services that are delivered in the public, private and third sectors, and we estimate that the UK Government’s increase could add more than £700 million to the costs of public services in Scotland. The Scottish Government has been clear that the Treasury must fully fund those costs, but the Treasury has indicated that we will instead receive a much lower-value Barnett share of spending in England. We maintain that additional support must go beyond a simple Barnett share and recognise the differing size and configuration of public services in Scotland.
Given the potential impact on charities, the health and care sector and businesses, the UK Government should have looked across the range of tax powers that are at its disposal before pushing through that increase to employer national insurance contributions.
Urgent action to tackle underfunding in the sector—in which staff turnover rates are far higher than they should be—is desperately needed. Will the minister tell us what more she is doing with the private, voluntary and independent sector to address the continuing disparity between private and state nurseries?
As set out in the draft budget, we will provide an additional £9.7 million to local authorities to support an increase in the pay of childcare workers in the private and third sectors.
Over and above that, the member will be aware of continuing work in relation to the sustainable rates review. Full implementation of those changes will be reliant on a cost collection exercise that will be undertaken in spring 2025, which will look at things such as bringing the rates that are paid to childminders into line with those for other types of provision, setting a higher rate for two-year-olds, staffing ratios and separating payments for free meals.
I am more than happy to continue discussing with the member other ways in which we are supporting the PVI sector if she so wishes.
I apologise to the members whom I could not call for supplementaries.
That concludes portfolio questions on education and skills. Before we move to the next item of business, there will be a brief pause to allow members on the front benches to change over.
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