The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-16869, in the name of Jackie Dunbar, on global intergenerational week 2025. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I invite members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons now, and I call Jackie Dunbar to open the debate.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes that Global Intergenerational Week runs from 24 to 30 April 2025; understands that the campaign originally started at a local level, grew to a national event and is now a global celebration in its sixth year; recognises that the aim of it is to inspire individuals, groups, organisations, local and national government, as well as non-government organisations, to fully embrace Intergenerational Week, which, it believes, will help connect people of all ages, particularly the younger and older generations; commends the work of Generations Working Together, which works in partnership with organisations from across the UK to promote intergenerational working across the country; recognises that this year’s theme is intergenerational learning and aims to highlight the findings of the World Health Organization’s Global Report on Ageism, which outlines the negative impact of ageism on society and recommends education as a key strategy to address it; understands that, for the first time, Generations Working Together welcomes a Global Intergenerational Week sponsor in global life sciences, the company, Bayer AG; recognises what it sees as the importance of intergenerational working in helping to create a fairer society, and welcomes all intergenerational work that has taken place, not only across Aberdeen Donside, but Scotland as a whole.
17:11
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer—my apologies for confusing you by sitting in a different seat tonight.
I thank all my colleagues across the chamber who signed my motion on global intergenerational week 2025, and I thank in advance those members who will take part in the debate. I also welcome Alison and Kshitija from the Generations Working Together team, who are in the public gallery.
The theme of this year’s global intergenerational week is intergenerational learning. This is not the first debate that I have led on intergenerational working, which has led to someone asking me what personal experience I have had that makes me care so much about the subject—what is my story? To be honest, I do not have any particular personal experience that has led me to this issue, just a general belief that it is important for different generations to engage with and learn from one another.
As for stories, however, there have been so many. Once upon a time, a long, long time ago, before Facebook and Twitter—and, indeed, before Bebo and MySpace; who remembers them?—most communication was spoken rather than written. Some of it was practical, such as skills and language—that is how Doric has made its way down the generations—while another part of it was myths and legends, as well as some good old-fashioned gossip.
That is how so much of our history is passed down to us. Those of us from more humble beginnings know that history books were not written about farmhands and factory workers. Their stories and legacies were passed down and kept alive by word of mouth. That is what makes our uncle or great-uncle—or even our great-great-uncle, depending on how old we are—a person rather than an inscription on the local war memorial for someone whom we have never met. It is how so many of our folk songs, recipes and traditional skills, and the stories that are unique to our families and communities, have made their way down to us today.
I mentioned social media, and I come back to that. Social media—indeed, the internet in general—has changed how we share information, for better and for worse. It has led to there being an online Doric dictionary, which is for the better; it has supported people to share their lives with the world in a way that they never could before; and it has put some of our culture in front of larger audiences in a way that we could never possibly have imagined. However, in amongst the world’s-worth of videos, blogs and web pages that we have at our fingertips, we have moved to a situation in which the majority of the content that people see online has been created in the past 24 hours, and that does not bode well for the stories that have been passed down the generations.
We have also seen a shift in how folk engage with one another. Our communities used to be mostly based on where we lived; we knew our neighbours and their neighbours, and their neighbours’ neighbours. Nowadays, people can find friends on the other side of the planet who share the same interests, or they can find folk with common interests and then form a new kind of community with them. However, with those much wider nets, more folk—and especially older folk—can slip through, and we are seeing increased isolation as a result.
I want to use today’s debate to talk about why there is still a case for intergenerational learning and for different generations to learn from one another. It not only teaches new information and skills, but provides opportunities to challenge stereotypes and misconceptions, with ageism against both young and old being a particular problem.
On the theme of intergenerational learning, Generations Working Together has provided us with a wonderful briefing. As the MSP for Aberdeen Donside, I think that the best bit is where it talks about Aberdeen, particularly the intergenerational choir that is run by ACE Voices in Aberdeen. That project has been credited with reconnecting communities, providing learning and leadership opportunities, helping to reduce isolation and loneliness and reducing ageism. It is a fantastic initiative, and it is just one of numerous such initiatives across Scotland. For example, there is the intergenerational shared site that consists of a nursery inside a care home in Methilhaven in Fife, and there is the junior Up Helly Aa in Shetland. There are older adults mentoring young folk in the Citadel Youth Centre in Leith, and there is the great work of the F’aside women and girls group in East Lothian.
I expect to see more of that in the future—and I say “expect”, because of the work that Generations Working Together has done in, for example, developing lesson plans and resources for primary schools to prepare children for intergenerational learning. I am sure that it will give members a copy of that material to anyone who wants it—I got one from the organisation earlier. It has also worked with Education Scotland and produced two new practice guidance handbooks on intergenerational work.
I will remind members what Generations Working Together is now asking for so that it can build on what it has already done. It is urging everyone to recognise the importance of three things. The first is intergenerational training to enable staff and volunteers to start from a place of good practice. The second is funding for intergenerational projects. If anyone is thinking of funding intergenerational projects, I promise them that it will be money well spent. I know at first hand, as a member of the ABZ propeller fund—which is funded by Aberdeen airport and gives out money to charities and groups in north-east Scotland—the fantastic difference that that can make. In my area, the fund has allocated money to the Bridge of Don men’s shed for a polytunnel that it uses with Forehill primary school, with the not-so-young teaching the young how to grow things. That is just one fantastic example of intergenerational work.
Thirdly, the organisation is asking for at least two members of staff or volunteers in each project or school to be trained and supported over the long term to build their knowledge and confidence in the field of intergenerational practice.
I will finish by urging everyone to do something, too. Go and have a conversation with someone different, from a different generation. Learn or teach something, such as a new phrase, or, for those in Aberdeen, teach the younger generation the Doric. You will be glad that you did.
We move to the open debate.
17:18
I am pleased to take up the opportunity to participate in the debate, and I thank Jackie Dunbar for bringing it to the chamber. Indeed, I contributed to a similar debate when I was my party’s shadow minister for older people.
Generational working together is, and continues to be, a major issue. It is encouraging to hear that, from humble beginnings, the global intergenerational week event has now grown to an international level in just a few years, and now addresses the international issues that make such a difference to the generations. The campaign is a good chance for us to celebrate local opportunities to bring different age groups together to form friendships, to work together, to learn and to make progress.
As members know, I am a co-convener of the Scottish Parliament’s cross-party group on Malawi, and I was delighted to learn recently that the Malawi Network of Older Persons Organisations has taken on the role of Malawi’s country lead for global intergenerational week. As a consortium of civil society organisations working on ageing issues in Malawi, MANEPO is completely dedicated to promoting and protecting the rights of older people across that country.
The motion highlights this year’s theme of intergenerational learning and highlights the findings of the World Health Organization’s “Global Report on Ageism”. The report outlines the negative impact of ageism on society, states that education is a key strategy for addressing it and focuses on the vital progress that has been made. Although it is very much the case that the Government must focus on how we deal with ageism and on how older people are managed, it is vital that we think about how those issues work on an international and intergenerational stage.
It is also important that we look at what the Scottish Government has done in the past. We know that there have been concerns about how the issues of isolation and loneliness are being tackled. There has been some progress in that regard, but we still have a long way to go in order to make the necessary changes. If nothing else, it gives us the context for where we are with regard to our ageing population.
Age Scotland’s report, “The Big Survey 2023”, which contains the results of a survey of people over 50 in Scotland, highlights many areas that need to be addressed and highlighted. Furthermore, a study by the Scottish Fiscal Commission that the BBC highlighted recently has found that issues with people’s health become much more apparent as they get on in years, and discusses how that can be looked at. It says that we face “significant challenges” as a country when it comes to managing how individuals from different generations are supported
As for financing what needs to be done, we are well aware that, over the next 20 years, the spending required could have major impacts on what can and will be achieved. The commission’s study talks about several indicators that relate to the decline in the health of the Scottish population, and we have already talked about how, in the past, health inequalities, isolation and loneliness have been big issues. Since 2012, Scotland’s progress has very much stagnated, and there has been a general decline in healthy life expectancy. There has been a rise in mental health issues, too, as we are, sadly, all aware.
However, it is important that we also consider the positives that can be achieved. Significant health inequalities indicate not only where we are with regard to intergenerational issues but ways of supporting older people to feel part of the process. In saying all this, I echo the words of the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s chairman, Professor Graeme Roy, who has said that
“Scotland faces a real challenge in terms of its overall fiscal sustainability”
when it comes to its ageing—and its unhealthy—population.
I am anxious to hear what the minister will say in her summing-up speech, when she will talk about where we are. However, there is a real opportunity for us to work together, to train together and to engage in projects together, all of which will make a difference when it comes to intergenerational issues.
17:23
I congratulate ma guid freend—and, if I can yaise a Doric word, ma guid quine—Jackie Dunbar on securing this debate on global intergenerational week, which runs from 24 April to 31 April this year.
This is the second time that Ms Dunbar has led a debate on the issue, and she has aptly covered many important aspects of intergenerational working and the wider global movement, which is now in its sixth year.
The meaning of “intergenerational” has changed hugely over our lifetimes—indeed, we might say that it has changed across successive generations. The days of three or four generations of a single family living on the same street or in the same district and engaging with and learning from one another are almost entirely at an end. Mobility—social and physical—has gradually eroded that way of life, and we need to re-engage to assist generations to work together.
The point of generations working together is to leverage the diverse experiences and perspectives of each generation, fostering a richer learning and growth environment for everyone involved.
I remember participating as a relatively new MSP in a previous members’ business debate on intergenerational issues, which was led by Christine Grahame MSP, who is sitting across the aisle from me. It inspired me, and Christine Grahame inspired me. Indeed, it was obvious that she had captured my interest, as one of the first actions that I pursued following the debate was to find out what intergenerational engagement work was taking place in Dumfries and Galloway, which is part of my South Scotland region.
There is, indeed, intergenerational work taking place in Dumfries and Galloway. For example, Kerry Little from Mallory Nurseries in Dumfries takes pre-school children to the older persons day centre at Cumberland Street for intergenerational engagement. Intergenerational working might sound quite lofty—it is a bit of a mouthful—but what takes place at the day centre was quite simple to achieve. The wee ones were guided to play and interact with the older adults, and there was much mirth and joy.
The home page of the Generations Working Together website states:
“Together, let’s celebrate the power of connection. Relationships between older and younger people are not just ‘nice’ but essential.”
The website is full of information about events, workshops and activities, as well as online training. In addition, there is a global intergenerational week promotional video. It is worth watching, as it outlines the benefits, including mentoring, and notes the positive effect of confidence building and the reduction of isolation and loneliness among participants.
I note that this year’s theme is intergenerational learning, and that the aim is to highlight the findings of the World Health Organization’s “Global Report on Ageism”. As Jackie Dunbar’s motion states, the report
“outlines the negative impact of ageism on society and recommends education as a key strategy”
to address that.
I have my intergenerational guide with me. I will make sure that I read it later and pay attention to what it says.
Last September, I presented the welcome address at an intergenerational workshop at the Dumfries & Galloway Carers Centre. There were many attendees from third sector organisations.
I am pleased to inform members about some of the excellent work that is going on in D&G. Just this morning, I read that children at the Johnston Nursery in Kirkcudbright participated in an intergenerational event. The nursery is collaborating with Meeting Centres Scotland to create an intergenerational and dementia-friendly meeting space in the nursery. I note that the children took the lead on a brilliantly relevant bridge-building challenge. The challenge, which was to build a bridge strong enough for a toy car to cross, was reported as
“an enjoyable and inclusive activity that fostered teamwork.”
In addition, the Galloway Action Team charity in Stranraer is delivering intergenerational work, responding to local people’s needs and building the skills of the volunteers, supporting them to continue to integrate with locals.
Today’s debate is a good way of raising awareness of what generations working together means, conveying the positives six years on from the first global intergenerational week and valuing the importance of intergenerational working.
17:28
I, too, thank Ms Dunbar for securing the debate. It is commendable that this is the second year in a row that she has done so, as this is a critical issue for our society. Often, the discourse in our country can focus on intergenerational inequality and unfairness, but focusing more on the opportunities that intergenerational working can bring is important, because amazing things are going on in this country. Ms Dunbar alluded to a lot of that in her speech, and it provoked a lot of thinking on my part about what goes on in my area.
I remember going to an event in Springburn academy—this was before I became a member of the Scottish Parliament—that was to do with an oral history project that intermediate-level pupils were involved in. As part of the project, the pupils spoke to older members of the community about their memories of Springburn. The history that the pupils recorded opened their eyes to the immense richness of the identity of those older members of the community and the pride that they had in their community. That was something that they had not previously discovered, and it was really special to witness.
At the event, when the pupils were presenting the findings of their project, having interviewed older members of the community, they referenced a proverb, which was along the lines of “When an old person dies, a library burns to the ground.” I thought that that was a really poetic way of capturing the point of how much we might miss as a society, particularly when we view with derision or with a lack of respect our older people and the immense amount of experience and wisdom that they can bring. It was remarkable to see the awareness of young people at the school reflecting on that.
It is a turn of phrase that has stuck with me. We often forget the immense amount of experience, particularly in working-class communities, that is not recorded or appreciated. The way in which the campaign has focused on promoting a grass-roots network is important. I commend its work and hope that it continues to grow from year to year. It has certainly grown from being a relatively local project to being a global phenomenon, and that is to be celebrated.
I also think of my recent attendance at a model railway exhibition in Glasgow, where I enjoyed the model railway exhibits, which were impressive. I also enjoyed seeing all the community model railway clubs, with young people and old people working together to build amazing historical and contemporary scenes from across Scotland, and the shared enthusiasm and joy of people coming together and celebrating that. That is another example of the richness in our country that can be overlooked or dismissed.
Things such as men’s sheds or community gardens are not prescribed by central Government or some central office; they happen organically in our communities. Those things are very special and we ought to celebrate them. So often, they are seen as being nice to have and easy to trim away from a Government budget line from year to year, but they are valuable and rich.
Such things are also essential to public health. We often talk about problems with mental health and wellbeing, or about isolation and loneliness, and how difficult it might be for a general practitioner to find a remedy for those things. It is not always about prescribing something; the remedy can be built into our communities. Mental ill-health and other problems might be a symptom of disconnect within our communities, which is more subtle and harder to diagnose.
That is where the ideal of social prescribing comes in. It is about building that richness into our communities. An introduction to a sports club or to a group such as the scouts, the Boys Brigade, the cadets or a model railway club is the essence of starting to build wellness, prosperity and happiness, which is an under-regarded and underappreciated factor in public policy in our society. If we can establish the tangible value of such organisations and the work that they do, and price it into Government policy, we will be well on the way to building a better network and system for intergenerational working across our country.
I again thank Jackie Dunbar for lodging the motion.
17:32
I, too, congratulate Jackie Dunbar on securing the debate.
Global intergenerational week is aimed at inspiring individuals, groups, organisations and Governments to connect people of all ages, especially the younger and older generations, in order to share good practice and take opportunities to come together, enjoy each other’s company, and make friendships that cross the age divide. That can happen through physical activities, chatting, gardening and baking—although I should say that I am quite hopeless at baking.
Some of that already happens quite naturally through grandparenting and interaction with elderly relatives and neighbours. It can be about cuddling in to granny or grandad, telling a story from a book or simply sharing memories of the past, embellished—in my case, at least—for dramatic or romantic effect, or even both. Those are special moments and they give parents a break. Walking hand in hand with a young one chattering away, and granny getting out and about instead of being sofa bound, are the stuff of abiding memories.
A benefit of being Granny Scotland—my soubriquet—is going to films that I really want to see but for which I need an alibi. That alibi is the granddaughter who is at my side while we watch “Frozen” on the big screen, with compulsory burgers; who, while I simply lounge on the sand at Portobello beach, paddles about and keeps checking to see if I am watching her with approval; or who shares a humungous banana split with me. I remember having my face painted as a cat’s on new year’s day and then returning home, forgetting that I was still sporting the cat face and wondering why the world was smiling at me as I passed by.
In some cultures—for example, in China—the elderly are respected and even revered, just for being elderly. Indeed, with my own late granny, we did as we were told. It was her hoose, so there were no mugs in her kitchen; there was a cheena cup and saucer, doilies, antimacassars and a three-tiered cake and sandwich stand. There was nothing less from a former lady’s maid—the daughter of a shepherd, who left school at 14. It was another world, but it is as clear in my memory as yesterday.
This sort of intergenerational activity can involve young ones coming in to care settings to share simple play and perhaps perform a song or two. Indeed, I have seen that at work in schools. It can involve lessons in social history, too. What was it like, say, growing up after the war with the remnants of rationing, or in the swinging 60s when mini-skirts were, dangerously, all the fashion and the young rebelled against the older generation? By the way, I come free of charge.
It can involve a young person showing someone older, such as me, how to use TikTok or even the mysteries of the internet. It can also be about using emojis in the right place at the right time for the right reason. After all, we all remember David Cameron getting caught, misusing “LOL”.
All of that activity should also remind the younger generation that we, the older people, have a value and should be valued—that we have had, and still have, a life. It is important that we understand and tolerate one another. Age discrimination against the older generation is alive and well—as an octogenarian, I can testify to that—but so is age discrimination against the young. The untrammelled energy of youth can be annoying but so, too, can the slower pace of the elderly, irritating those who are young, for whom life is in a hurry.
Tolerance and understanding are, therefore, a good prescription. That is why one-to-one encounters, starting with those personal encounters between the younger and older generations, are important; they shatter misperceptions and, what is more, enhance respect and understanding of both the old and the young.
Thank you, Ms Grahame. You may be underpricing yourself.
I call Kaukab Stewart to respond to the debate. Minister, you have about seven minutes.
17:37
Thank you, Presiding Officer, and fellow members.
I am delighted to close the debate on global intergenerational week 2025, and I thank my colleague Jackie Dunbar for lodging the motion and my fellow MSPs for attending and taking part. It is important that we celebrate this global event organised by Generations Working Together, which is the nationally recognised centre of excellence supporting the development of intergenerational work across Scotland.
The seven themes explored in this year’s campaign are key to my work as Minister for Equalities and align with the mission and values of the Scottish Government. Indeed, the themes include challenging ageism and social isolation and loneliness, both of which come under my portfolio.
The Scottish Government recognises the value in bringing generations together to encourage greater understanding and respect between them and to build more cohesive and fairer communities in Scotland. As a result, we are working with a wide range of partners across the age equality spectrum, including Generations Working Together, which sits on both our older people’s strategic action forum and our social isolation and loneliness advisory group.
I have seen in practice the benefits to both older and younger generations of coming together to share skills and to learn from one another. In February, I had the pleasure of visiting the men’s shed in Inverclyde—a volunteer-run grass-roots organisation that provides community spaces where people can get involved and grow. In its workshop, I saw multiple generations and cultures working together and building friendships.
Turning to colleagues’ contributions, I was struck by Jackie Dunbar’s general belief that generations can learn from one another and her celebration of the tradition of oral history that passes on to other generations our folklore, storytelling and language—indeed, all languages, including the Doric, for which Jackie Dunbar has a great passion.
I thank Alexander Stewart for recognising the progress that we have made. I accept that we face challenges, but I give him an absolute commitment that we will continue to make further progress.
Inspired by Christine Grahame, as so many of us are, Emma Harper highlighted the value of education as a way of addressing ageism. When I was a teacher, which was not that long ago, I took great pleasure—especially when I was teaching primary 7s—in making sure that, as part of our work on the topic of people and place, we reached out to local older people. We organised tea parties for them in the school, and children were able to develop their social and interpersonal skills by learning how to take turns to ask questions and listen. Everyone benefited from that.
Paul Sweeney acknowledged the opportunities that intergenerational work presents and emphasised—very poignantly, I must say—the vast knowledge that is held by our older people and for which we are grateful to them.
Christine Grahame highlighted the role of grandparents. I am sure that all members are grateful to her for sharing the joyful tales of the activities that she has taken part in, including face painting. I am sure that she looked perfect.
I return to the fact that the Scottish Government is clear about our support for intergenerational working, with older people in particular, given the impact that it has on loneliness. That is evident from the support that we provide through the social isolation and loneliness fund, which supports 53 organisations in tackling social isolation and loneliness. We will be investing £3.8 million in that work over a three-year period.
As Alexander Stewart pointed out, social isolation and loneliness are public health issues that can affect anyone at any stage of life. Therefore, many of the projects that are funded take a strong intergenerational approach by supporting older and younger people to connect through social lunches, befriending, community meals or other activities.
We are, of course, proud to have supported men’s sheds since their inception in Scotland more than a decade ago, and we have provided more than three quarters of a million pounds to enable that movement to grow and flourish. Men’s sheds are a positive role model for fostering connections between generations of men to increase wellbeing, reduce stigma and make a difference to their local communities.
We are also delighted to fund Befriending Networks, which provides vital support and advice to befriending organisations across the UK and is a partner of our social isolation and loneliness advisory group. We do recognise that many of those organisations rely on the passion of volunteers.
We know that intergenerational volunteering brings many benefits, not only by reducing loneliness and isolation but by helping people make new friends, have fun and help others. Building a deeper understanding of one another through volunteering can help all generations feel valued as well as create a greater sense of belonging and help everyone improve their mental health and build their confidence. That is why the Scottish Government has published the volunteering action plan, which seeks to increase participation and reduce barriers to volunteering for all.
I again thank Ms Dunbar for securing the debate and Generations Working Together for its tireless work in raising the profile of intergenerational work across the globe. I appreciate that we have faced many challenges that have impacted on intergenerational connections, such as Covid-19 and the on-going cost of living crisis, but I know that, with the on-going support of Generations Working Together as a key partner, we can strive to make a positive difference to all generations.
That concludes the debate.
Meeting closed at 17:44.Air ais
Decision Time