Official Report 1168KB pdf
The final item of business is a members’ business debate, in the name of Karen Adam, on celebrating LGBT history month. The debate will be concluded without any question being put, after we have heard the minister respond to the debate. I take the opportunity to add to what the Presiding Officer said in extending a very warm welcome back to the Minister for Older People and Equalities, Christina McKelvie.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament recognises that February is LGBT History Month; notes that this year’s theme is Blurring Borders: A World in Motion, which invites people to think beyond borders and to ask each other what Scotland’s place is within the global movement towards equality; highlights what it sees as the vital and continued efforts of Four Pillars, which is a charity that strives to maintain a sense of community for LGBT+ people across the north east of Scotland by supporting four aspects it considers are vital to wellbeing, which are mental, emotional, physical and sexual health; understands that LGBT History Month is coordinated by LGBT Youth Scotland, a national charity aimed at promoting health and wellbeing among LGBTI young people aged 13 to 25 across the country, hosting in-person and online events in partnership with, among others, Leap Sports Scotland, the National Library of Scotland and the National Lottery Heritage Fund Scotland; wishes all involved every success in their endeavours, and notes the call for everyone to support the campaign and raise awareness of the part that everyone can play in making Scotland a fairer, just and more equal society for all who live here.
17:50
I am envious of everybody who is in the chamber with Christina McKelvie. I cannot wait to get back there and see her in person. Welcome back, Christina.
I thank all the members from across the parties who have supported the motion so that we could bring the debate to the Parliament. LGBT history month this year is focused on the theme “blurring borders: a world in motion”. Although some other countries in the world face a rising tide—a roll-back, really—against LGBT human rights, the Scottish National Party Government is committed to improving the rights of LGBT people who live in Scotland.
If we take ourselves back in time, we see that until as recently as 1980 it was illegal to have gay sexual relations. That, of course, impacted on any potential romantic or intimate loving relationships. The law criminalised generations of LGBT people. Criminalisation of gay people fed a culture of shame that nurtured a hostile environment for people who were attracted to people of the same gender as them—an environment whose negative impacts we still experience in our society. We still have a lot of damage to undo.
I have personally felt the impact of the hostile environment that was created. As a child, I had no understanding of my own small world. My mum was gay and I grew up in a household with two women. My mum’s partner was referred to as “the lodger”. Of course, adults gossiped and that filtered down to their children, who poked fun at me in the playground and called out homophobic slurs regarding my mum. I was confused and ashamed, and was taught to hide my family circumstances for fear of being bullied. But, surely, love should never mean having to live in fear.
My friends would ask me questions. Some were prompted by their parents, no doubt, but I guess that some were just curious. However, I could not answer those questions because I did not even know what being gay was. My mum never spoke about it, school never taught me about it and we certainly did not have any healthy examples of gay relationships to pull from. There were only slurs, shame and fear. In that context, we must remember that, in 1988, Margaret Thatcher’s United Kingdom Tory Government implemented a series of laws that prohibited the so-called promotion of homosexuality—in other words, section 28.
This year’s LGBT history month theme, “blurring borders: a world in motion”, invites people to think beyond borders and to ask one another what Scotland’s place is within the global movement towards equality, so let us look at Scotland’s record.
Since devolution, we have made some landmark leaps forward in legislation. In 2000, the Scottish Parliament repealed section 28, so schools can now talk about LGBTI issues with pupils. In 2007, Scottish same-gender couples gained equality in adoption and fostering. In 2014, same-gender marriage was legalised. In 2018, the Historical Sexual Offences (Pardons and Disregards) (Scotland) Act 2018 was passed.
Most recently, in 2021, Scotland introduced LGBT-inclusive education in our schools—a world first. I wish that I had had that growing up in the late 1970s and the 1980s. I ask members to imagine how the landscape would have differed for so many people. Now, at last, LGBT-inclusive education will change the landscape for so many more who are to come.
We have improved the rights of LGBT people in Scotland, but we also need to create a cultural change in society. Having all the good laws in the world is all well and good, but we also need to address the unwarranted moral panic that is going on in the UK right now, particularly towards trans people. I will explain the term “moral panic” for anyone who is unfamiliar with it. It is a situation that occurs in society when media reporting creates a folk devil out of a particular social group—often a minority or already marginalised people. It is described as a moral panic because it is based on an outraged sense of offence, although the information that prompts said offence is limited, vague or simply untrue.
The term “folk devil” refers to a group whose commonality has become stigmatised by society and which has become the target of adverse comments and behaviour, just as my mum and many other lesbian, gay and bisexual people in the 1980s were demonised and met with suspicion by powerful public figures, politicians and the media. Sadly, in recent years, I have recognised the same patterns of discrimination towards LGBT-identifying people, and particularly towards trans people, as the Scottish Government has sought to simplify an administrative process—in other words, to reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004.
The current rise in LGBT hate crimes is testament to that pattern and to the need for culture change. We, as citizens and community leaders, have a responsibility to have zero tolerance—otherwise, we become enablers of culture change to the contrary, and not just in terms of stagnation of rights, but in terms of rolling back rights that have already been fought for. It is incumbent on all of us to act and to speak up for what is right. It is especially incumbent on cisgendered heterosexual people to stand by LGBT friends, family, colleagues and loved ones so that the only culture change in our society is towards acceptance.
It is important that we take lessons from history so that, in the future, we ensure that those lessons have been learned. What we do in Parliament is not only important for the LGBT+ community in Scotland; it also sets an example for other countries and LGBT communities worldwide. We should be proud of all that Scotland has done in leading the way in the fight for LGBT+ equality. We should never underestimate the power that our actions and words here can have in the rest of the world. The world is watching—now it is time for us to lead.
I take the opportunity to reaffirm my commitment to improving LGBTQ+ rights and inclusion, particularly as we move forward with reforming the GRA. Also, importantly, we need to improve healthcare outcomes for trans people. Let us go further and do more.
Finally, I will speak directly to every LGBTQIA+ person who might be listening. Whether you are out and proud or yet to make that journey, I say to you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you, but there is a lot wrong with the world in which we live. Know this: I will, for my part, do everything that I can to create the cultural change that is needed to ensure that Scotland is not only a country where it is safe for you to live true to yourself, but one that leads the world by example.
17:57
I thank my colleague Karen Adam—who, like me, has long been a proud and unwavering ally of the LGBT community—for securing the debate and allowing us the opportunity to reflect on the past, present and future of LGBT rights and the journey that has been taken to get us to where we are.
It is hard to reflect on the progress that we have made without talking about my party’s contribution in getting us there. As I am sure my colleague Paul O’Kane will say, no party has advanced or promoted the rights of the LGBT+ community as much as the Labour Party. The Labour Party has been at the front and centre of representation. Maureen Colquhoun was the first LGBT+ MP and Chris Smith the first openly gay MP. Ben Bradshaw and Stephen Twigg, who were elected on the same night in 1997, became the first MPs to have been selected and elected while standing as openly gay candidates. Dame Angela Eagle was the first out lesbian to serve as a UK Government minister. The bravery of those politicians in putting themselves forward and then fighting the fight once they got there is the reason why, today, LGBT MPs sit right across the UK Parliament chamber.
In Scotland, Kezia Dugdale was one of the first openly gay party leaders and, during the time of her leadership of the Scottish Labour Party, another openly gay woman, Ruth Davidson, led the Scottish Conservatives. It was said at the time that the Scottish Parliament was
“the gayest Parliament in the world.”
That time in Scottish political history might be clouded by the intense political debate that surrounded it, but I am sure that, one day, we will look back and recognise how pivotal a moment it was.
In this new parliamentary session, I am proud to make my contribution alongside my good friend Paul O’Kane—who is the first openly gay man to be elected as a Scottish Labour MSP—and to see the positive trend of LGBT representation continue in Parliament. We cannot underestimate the importance of people seeing others just like them in order for them to know that they, too, can be in the room. I know that myself, only too well.
Sexuality and gender should never be barriers to people’s progression or achievements but, sadly, too often they are, so we cannot be complacent, even in Scotland, where we pride ourselves on being progressive. We are still far behind my vision of being the best place for LGBT+ people to grow up.
Sexual orientation is still the second most commonly reported motivator of hate crime, and the figure has been rising over the past 10 years. One in five LGBT people has been the victim of hate crime that was motivated by their gender identity or sexual orientation. For trans people, the figure jumps to almost half.
The fights that have been won are many, but there are many still to fight. As I have done before, I commit today to standing shoulder to shoulder with the LGBT community through the battles that lie ahead. Yesterday, we learned that the Scottish Government intends, finally, to introduce a bill next week to reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004. It is long overdue, but I stand ready with my colleagues to support reform and to scrutinise the bill to ensure that it delivers the change that is needed, so that transgender people no longer have to endure intrusive, degrading and medicalised intervention just in order to identify as being the gender that they are.
However, I say to the cabinet secretary that in delaying such action the Government has created a vacuum that has allowed fear and ignorance to prosper. Through all the discussions that I have had about the proposed legislation, it has become clear to me that the delay has allowed people’s imaginations to run wild; it has allowed them to imagine that reform is something that it is not, and it has allowed a narrative to build that frames the rights of trans people as a threat to the rights of women, as if those two things were mutually exclusive.
Meanwhile, the number of hate crimes against trans people has been rising: indeed, the number has risen significantly since 2016, when the proposals for the bill were first floated. I know that the cabinet secretary shares my frustration at the situation, and I hope that in the weeks ahead she will do all that she can to settle concerns, correct misunderstandings and move forward with the legislation in a way that protects trans people from further harm or abuse.
I started my speech by celebrating the importance of the progress that has been made and the importance of representation. I know that all of us who will speak in the debate want to be on the right side of history, which means unapologetically and unequivocally standing up for and protecting the rights of all LGBT people in Scotland. I, for one, will do all that I can as a Labour member to achieve that.
18:02
I congratulate Karen Adam on securing this debate, and I also want to say that it is great to have Christina McKelvie back. She has been sorely missed by us all.
I am honoured to participate in this debate marking LGBT history month 2022 and to have this opportunity to reflect on the LGBT community’s past and present, celebrate LGBT progress and address the injustices that far too many experience around the globe. Every February, the UK comes together to celebrate the history of its LGBT+ citizens and to raise awareness of the on-going issues that are still faced by the LGBT+ community.
The theme of this year’s LGBT history month is “blurring borders: a world in motion”. Scotland quite rightly prides itself on being one of the most progressive countries with regard to sexuality and gender identity issues, and it now seems incomprehensible that until 1980 homosexuality between men was still illegal. I am extremely proud of the Scottish Government’s work in not only progressing equality but righting historical wrongs, and the passing of the landmark historic sexual offences legislation was a momentous step and a very proud day for this chamber that I will not forget. Although it can never erase the hurt, injustice and trauma that was caused to thousands of men, it sends a very clear message that the laws in question were unjust, morally unfair and discriminatory and that this Government and the people of Scotland recognise the value, diversity and culture of our LGBT+ community.
We have the most progressive and extensive equal marriage legislation, equal access to adoption and IVF for same-sex couples. We have also reformed blood donation rules to replace the deferral period for some gay and bisexual men with individual risk assessment, regardless of sexual orientation, which has allowed thousands of gay and bisexual men to donate blood for the first time.
We were the first country to host the transgender and intersex conference, bringing people from across the UK together to work on and improve transgender and intersex equality, and we recently became the first country in the world to embed LGBT+ inclusive education in our schools to ensure that learning about LGBT+ history and culture is not restricted to one month of the year.
However, as we stand here today celebrating the inclusive and diverse country that we are all lucky to live in, we cannot ignore the fact that homosexuality is still criminalised in more than 60 countries around the world. The international focus of this year’s history month shines a spotlight on what an equal world of LGBT people would really look like and how we can work together to achieve it.
A study by the Yale School of Public Health identified a “global closet” and reported that an estimated 83 per cent of those who identified as lesbian, gay or bisexual keep their orientation hidden from all or most of the people in their lives. That may sound unimaginable to us, but we should consider that, in some countries, homosexuality continues to be punishable by imprisonment or forced labour, and revealing one’s true self can often be a matter of life or death.
In a blog written for LGBT history month, Leanne MacMillan, who is Stonewall’s director of global programmes, speaks of the difficulties that are faced by those who seek to escape legal discrimination, entrenched homophobia and heteronormativity. She says:
“Our vision is of a world where everyone is free to be ourselves—but the truth is that in many areas of the world, simply being LGBTQ+ puts your life at risk ... We know that nobody would leave their home country—risking their lives and livelihoods, and leaving behind the world they built for themselves—unless they had no other option.
The journeys they embark upon to reach safer shores are gruelling and fraught with risk. And the reality is that when—or if—they reach sanctuary, the challenges are far from over ... The trauma refugees experience before, during and after fleeing their home countries is hard to comprehend for those of us who have always lived in relative safety.”
Make no mistake: it is not just the laws that need to be changed. We know that, even in countries in which equal laws exist, lesbian, gay, bi and trans people continue to face discrimination on a daily basis. People often find themselves excluded or facing verbal and physical abuse at work, in schools, in sport or in their local communities.
Love comes in many forms. It is our duty to stand up and challenge discrimination and end injustice based on sexual orientation and gender identity whenever and wherever we see it.
18:06
I am delighted to speak in this members’ business debate, and I thank Karen Adam for giving MSPs the opportunity in the chamber to celebrate and reflect on LGBT history.
Each year, LGBT Youth Scotland creates a theme for LGBT history month. In February 2022, the theme is “blurring borders: a world in motion”. That challenges us to reflect on the journey towards equality around the world and the pace of change in different countries.
That theme has particular resonance for me. For a human resources director, a key consideration in moving people and their families around the world for work is the kind of culture and environment that they will be living and working in. Time and again, that brings into sharp relief the fact that the rights that we have in the UK are not universally shared. That is important for the LGBT community, because there are 69 countries in which it is still illegal to be gay. In Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and the northern states of Nigeria, the punishment is the death penalty. In those countries, LGBT people live in constant fear of being outed. That is a sobering reminder that, although the UK and Scotland have made much progress, there is much progress to be made elsewhere.
Even in countries in which LGBT people are no longer criminalised, marriage equality remains an issue. Same-sex marriage is legal in 31 countries, but it is unlawful in many more. That means that gay couples often do not have the same rights in law that heterosexual married couples have. That injustice was painfully and poignantly explored in the sequel to the film, “If These Walls Could Talk”, when Edith was unable to be at the bedside of her partner, Abby, as she died and was asked by Abby’s family to leave the home that they had shared for 30 years. That is still the awful reality for many same-sex couples who are unable to marry.
The Netherlands was, of course, the first country to legalise gay marriage, in 2001. The Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill passed in England and Wales in July 2013. David Cameron described that as one of his proudest moments. Scotland followed suit in December 2014. I still remember seeing pictures of the incredible celebrations of love that followed the change in the law. In Scotland and the UK, we have made great strides towards equality, but there is still much more that must be done.
Next week, the University of Dundee will host an event commemorating Jonathan Leslie, who took his own life in Stonehaven two years ago, following intense homophobic harassment. Jonathan’s passing is a tragic reminder that we cannot be complacent and that equality in the law does not always mean equality in the eyes of another.
18:10
I add my voice to the voices of those who have already welcomed Christina McKelvie back to the chamber.
I congratulate and thank Karen Adam for lodging the motion and securing the debate. It is important to have the opportunity to stand in solidarity with LGBTQI+ people. That is what allyship is all about. Scottish Greens are proud to have always whole-heartedly supported LGBTQI rights and to have been part of the many campaigns that we have already heard about.
LGBT history month matters. It gives us the opportunity to celebrate diversity and to recognise and embrace difference. It also allows us to celebrate the victories that have been won. It is not that long since homosexuality was a criminal offence in this country. This Parliament should be proud of the role that it has played in enhancing the rights of LGBTQI+ people: abolishing section 28, bringing in equal marriage, supporting trans-inclusive education, enabling gay men to give blood and much more. I recognise that all those victories were the result of tireless campaigning by LGBTQI+ people and their allies.
It is right that we remember those victories and those who fought for them. It is also right that we remember those who suffered the consequences—the trauma, the violence, the harm and the grief—that are associated with participating in those fights, or with living in the world before they were won. That also means that we can learn more about the LGBTQI+ histories that have been ignored, erased or altered in the past because of prejudice and bigotry. LGBTQI+ identities have existed for as long as humans have, but they are seldom mentioned in history books. Erasing people’s lives is not okay. This month, we can learn what we have missed out on because of that erasure.
Making those identities visible now matters deeply. Letting people see themselves reflected in society is important. Education is a key part of that, but so is ensuring that our leaders, workplaces, culture and much more reflect the diversity of our society.
It is important that we take a moment to remember all those who are still fighting for equality and access to rights. Too many countries around the world still criminalise same-sex relationships and research shows that trans and gender-diverse people face disproportionate hate crime and violence. We know that recent evidence shows that there is rising victimisation and targeting of people in Scotland, based on their gender and sexuality. None of that is inevitable and, together, we can change it.
I was delighted to take part in Dundee Pride and Shaper/Caper’s OutFest question time last weekend, along with my colleagues Joe Fitzpatrick, Mercedes Villalba and Willie Rennie. I would like to think that, across the chamber, we can agree that organisations such as Dundee Pride, and Four Pillars in Aberdeen, do vital work supporting LGBTQI+ communities. Their support, campaigning and activism is not for February alone, but for every day of the year. I pay tribute to them for their tireless work.
Ultimately, LGBT history month allows us to stand in solidarity with the LGBTQI+ community, to learn how to be better allies and equalities campaigners and to pay homage to those who have paved the way for the rights and freedoms that we enjoy today. It reminds us of those who were erased, ignored and murdered because of their identity. It requires us to not be complacent, but to keep fighting and to keep challenging discrimination and inequalities in power, wherever they occur. We still have much work to do.
I call Alex Cole-Hamilton, to be followed by Jamie Greene. [Interruption.] Actually, I do not call Alex Cole-Hamilton, I call Paul O’Kane—I thank the clerk for keeping me in order.
18:14
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I apologise to you and to colleagues, as I will have to leave before the conclusion of the debate.
I welcome Christina McKelvie back to Parliament. I thank Karen Adam for bringing the debate to the chamber and pay tribute to her as an ally—along with many other colleagues who are participating in the debate—of LGBT+ people.
I am pleased to be able to speak in this debate to celebrate LGBT+ history month, and I am pleased to use the word “celebrate”, because this month should be a celebration. All too often lately, it has felt as though the rights of many LGBT+ people, and the hard-won progress that has been made over many years, have been up for debate.
According to Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service data on charges reported, the number of crimes that were aggravated by sexual orientation prejudice in Scotland rose by 32 per cent between 2018-19 and 2020-21, while the number of hate crimes aggravated by transgender identity prejudice has doubled since 2015.
The Council of Europe has recently pointed to the United Kingdom as being one of several countries where the advances of recent years are “under threat” amid
“extensive and often virulent attacks on the rights of LGBT+ people”,
and, tragically, too many LGBT+ people take their own life or contemplate doing so.
I have spoken in the chamber before about my young self and the fears that I felt when I was growing up, but I have also reflected on the amazing progress that has been made and the confidence that has been given to me by people across the country—in this place, in particular—who stood up and spoke out.
I am immensely proud of the record of my party in relation to decriminalisation; equalising the age of consent; lifting the ban on lesbians, gay men and bi people in the military; repealing section 2A, which is commonly known as section 28; the Gender Recognition Act 2004; civil partnerships, which paved the way for equal marriage; adoption rights; and the Equality Act 2010.
To any young LGBT+ people who are watching this debate, I want to say this: you are not alone. You might be worried just now. The world around you might seem terrifying. All that you might see and read might sometimes seem like a never-ending onslaught of anti-LGBT+ rhetoric, but it gets better. It will get better. There are people in this place who are standing up and speaking out for you, and who are ready to defend all the progress that we have made and to move forward once again on the journey for equality.
To quote my esteemed colleague in the House of Commons, Dame Angela Eagle MP:
“We are not going to get back in the closet, or hide, or be ashamed of the way we are.”—[Official Report, House of Commons, 25 June 2019; Vol 662, c 616.]
We will help to write the next pages of our history, and the young people of today will pick up that torch and carry it on.
There is always more to do. There is more to do in continuing to make progress on inclusive education; banning the horrendous practice of so-called conversion therapy; reforming the Gender Recognition Act 2004; and improving access to healthcare and services for trans people.
As we have heard, the theme of LGBT history month 2022 is “blurring borders: a world in motion”. We are invited to reflect on the situation beyond our own borders. Given the challenges and perils in our world at the moment, it is so important that we do so.
Our debate yesterday on the Nationality and Borders Bill made me think of the LGBT+ refugees around the world who are fleeing persecution, violence and death in their home countries. The unfolding situation in Ukraine and the fears for the progress and rights of LGBT+ people and their safety should be at the forefront of the minds of all of us.
The history of LGBT+ people is a global story. It is a story of solidarity, of understanding and of love. I am inspired by so many Scots who have led the way and by amazing organisations, such as Stonewall Scotland, LGBT Youth Scotland, Time for Inclusive Education and the Equality Network. I am also inspired by global figures, such as Harvey Milk. I have a quote of his on my desk upstairs:
“Hope will never be silent.”
Members should know that hope will never be silent for as long as I stand in this place and for as long as I have my voice.
I now call Alex Cole-Hamilton.
18:19
I am glad that you called Paul O’Kane before me, Presiding Officer. That was an excellent contribution. I am particularly grateful to him for quoting the words of Harvey Milk.
I welcome Christina McKelvie back to her place. It is great to see her and to have her sparkle back in the chamber.
I thank Karen Adam for bringing this important debate to the chamber, and for her moving account of growing up with gay parents. It was a beautiful account of how far we have come, and I thank her for it.
I also thank the many organisations that have contributed briefings today for the work that they do right across the board. In particular, I thank them for the work that they do with LGBT young people to help them find themselves and their place.
In his iconic novel, “Giovanni’s Room”, gay author James Baldwin makes a powerful statement about love:
“love him and let him love you. Do you think anything else under heaven really matters?”
At the time, his words resonated with millions of people who felt that their love was invalid because of the gender of the person whom they loved.
It has been a long march towards LGBT equality in Scotland, and although we have come far, there is still work to be done. We have heard lots about that this evening. I am sure that everyone feels and knows that they are valid and accepted, no matter who they are or how they love, but that does not happen everywhere.
LGBT history month rightly reminds us of some of the key moments on that road to equality. Gay people in Scotland long lived under the shadow of the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885, which made male sex a criminal offence carrying a two-year prison sentence. That was not fully overturned in Scotland until 1981. In 1988, as we have heard several times already, section 28—or section 2A—was introduced to prevent teachers from even talking about LGBT+ issues in schools. That caused many vital support groups to close as a result, with local authorities fearing that they might be in breach of the law if they allowed them to continue. As we have heard, we only got rid of section 28 in 2000.
We have been on quite a journey towards rights for LGBT people in this country. As a nation, we are now, rightly, proud to hold the mantle as
“the best country in Europe for LGBTI equality”.
One of my proudest moments during my time in Parliament was when I sat alongside Christina McKelvie on the Equalities and Human Rights Committee in the previous session. We stewarded through Parliament a bill that would extend a formal apology from the state to all gay men, who had long had to bear the stain of a criminal record for being intimate with the person whom they loved—a crime that is no longer an offence.
Although we have come a long way and we should, rightly, be proud, we must not forget what is still to be done. LGBT people still face a number of barriers. They pop up right across our society, from healthcare to education. Some of those barriers are blatant; some are more subtle. However, they all cause damage and harm to people on a daily basis and they need to be addressed. That is why my party recommends that steps should be taken to help healthcare professionals and social care workers to recognise LGBT-specific issues, particularly around trans health, and how those need to be addressed. It is also time for us to redouble our efforts on LGBT-inclusive education.
The final frontier of LGBT equality is in trans rights. In the coming months, Parliament will debate GRA reform. It is right that we use that opportunity to hear evidence, reflect and scrutinise the legislation that passes through the chamber, but the GRA does need to be reformed. It is harming people every day. We must ensure that we improve laws so that they will better support trans people to live their lives free from discrimination.
I end with a quote from Anthony Venn-Brown, a survivor of conversion therapy, which members across the chamber have called to be banned.
“The richness, beauty and depths of love can only be fully experienced in a climate of complete openness, honesty and vulnerability.”
Although I am proud, as a Liberal Democrat, to be a liberal, it is my heartfelt belief that everyone should be empowered to be who they truly are, fully, and to love who they love, freely.
Due to the number of members who wish to speak in the debate I am minded to accept a motion without notice, under rule 8.14.3, to extend the debate by up to 30 minutes. I invite Karen Adam to move the motion.
Motion moved,
That, under Rule 8.14.3, the debate be extended by up to 30 minutes.—[Karen Adam]
Motion agreed to.
18:24
Do not worry—I will not speak for 30 minutes.
I start by thanking Karen Adam for the debate. It is great to see her wearing her rainbow braces. I remember a time when we were asked to remove rainbow ties rather than wear them in the chamber, because they were a campaigning symbol. How times have changed and, indeed, how this Parliament has changed. I declare an interest as the founder and co-convener of the Parliament’s first LGBTI cross-party group. I am pleased to welcome new members in this session of Parliament to that group.
The LGBTI community is not one homogenous group; we are all different. We have different beliefs, backgrounds, views and, as we can see, politics. We are different, but we are the same. We have come through the same history—the journey to where we are today and, my goodness, what a journey it has been.
Offences under the first Buggery Act of 1533 were punishable by death. Today, people can still be put to death for being gay. In 1885, the Criminal Law Amendment Act made same-sex acts illegal, and that is still the case in 70 countries today. In Scotland, it took until 1980, the year in which I was born, before we reversed those draconian laws. Full age of consent equality did not take place until 2000, and it is hard to imagine that we are having today’s debate against a context in which it was illegal for me to be with my then partner.
Progress is welcome. I was proud to be part of the
“gayest Parliament in the world”,
as Pam Duncan-Glancy put it. However, I would not be standing here making my speech if so many had not fought for my right to do so. Those include the US gay liberation front, which rose from the ashes of the Stonewall riots, and other groups such as OutRage!, OLGA, DAFT, the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence and the Lesbian Avengers. Those are not phrases that we often hear in Parliament, but there was nothing amusing about what they were doing, which was courageous, gritty and dangerous.
I could name many pioneers and revolutionaries, but there are too many to list. However, I will single out one—Peter Tatchell. I hope that my praise is not unwelcome, because I speak not as a politician but as a gay man who is thanking him personally. He deserves my thanks. He stood as a Labour candidate for Bermondsey in 1981 in a disgusting campaign in which he faced blatant homophobia. That happened against the backdrop of section 28, the most shameless episode in our political history. He and I might disagree on many issues, but his direct action undeniably contributed towards progress here and elsewhere.
More recently, the world was shaken by the murder of Matthew Shepard in 1998, which involved horrific abuse and torture. I will not even say the words to describe it, for fear of the Official Report having to write them down. Are we still shaken by such events? Are we shaken by the murder last year of Samuel Luiz, a 24-year-old young man who was beaten to death in Spain, sparking national outrage and protests right across Spain? What about the death of Dr Gary Jenkins, who was beaten to death in Cardiff around the same time? The closed-circuit television picked up his last moments. He could be heard crying out, “Please help me”, “Stop it” and “Why?” Why indeed? Where was the outrage after Gary’s death? Where were the national protests? Where are the protests about the fact that one in 10 young LGBT Scots have tried to take their own life? Where are the protests in this country about the fact that hate crime against LGBTI people is on the rise? Sometimes, I wish that I had the guts that Peter Tatchell had in the year in which I was born.
The battles that we now face are no less divisive, no less difficult, no less ugly and no less important. First, we must ban conversion therapy—we must do it somehow. We must do it in a way that has no unintended consequences for the rights and freedoms that we all enjoy, but neither should the ban be watered down and diluted under the pretence of protecting those rights.
Secondly, we must reform gender recognition in such a way that no one is wheeshed, but that asks each and every one of us to put ourselves in the shoes of a young trans person in Scotland right now, who will wait 44 months for treatment. I say to people: walk a mile in someone’s shoes, then judge them.
The same arguments that were used in the bygone debates against consent, gay marriage, section 28 and gay adoption are being churned up again, wrapped in sensibility and coated in a modern middle-class outrage, but they are no less visceral.
I close with a plea to each and every one of us—a plea for respect. When we lose respect for one another, we lose the argument. When we lose the argument, we lose hope, and, sometimes, hope is all that we have.
18:29
I thank Karen Adam for bringing the debate to the chamber. It is also great to see Christina McKelvie back in the chamber, and I look forward to working with her in the months and years ahead.
The speeches so far have been absolutely fantastic and very moving. I thank TIE and LGBT Youth Scotland for the briefings that they provided for the debate. In its briefing, LGBT Youth said that its vision is for Scotland to be the best place to grow up for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender and intersex young people. That is a challenge to us all.
LGBT history month takes place in February every year and offers the chance to connect and reflect on the past and present of the LGBT community. Maggie Chapman made the point that it is not just about the debate today—we have to live this every single day. We all have a role to play in driving equality forward and we have to remember that.
I met members of LGBT Youth about two or three weeks ago, and I was moved by the work that they do. It is the national charity working with LGBTI young people aged 13 to 25 across Scotland. It was great to chat with them and hear about the work that they are doing and the impact that that has on individuals. They deliver face-to-face and online youth work services, the LGBT charter programme for schools and organisations, and youth participation work to make sure that young people’s voices are heard by decision makers. We celebrate the important work that they do.
As others have touched on, this year’s theme is “blurring borders: a world in motion”. This year, we are invited to think beyond borders. As we have heard, we are lucky to live in Scotland. In other parts of the world, people are persecuted for their sexuality—just for who they are. We have already heard that Scotland has made great strides towards equality, but the journey has been made at a slower pace in some parts of the world, and faster in others.
In the discussion that I mentioned earlier with members of LGBT Youth, they talked about how a lot of young people have been denied the opportunity to learn about themselves and their history, and to see people like them reflected in their school curriculum.
Last week, I was heartened by the support for GRA reform. A large majority support reforms. I look forward to that debate next week.
From September 2021, the Scottish Government began to implement LGBT-inclusive education across all our schools. That means that young people across Scotland will learn about LGBT history: notable moments, key figures and role models—we can be those role models. They will also be learning about prejudice and discrimination, and rights, and they will be seeing in their learning representations of diverse families, including same-sex parents and relationships—Karen Adam spoke about that earlier.
The purpose of LGBT-inclusive education is to take a proactive, educational approach to tackling prejudice and the bullying that LGBT young people suffer. I had not heard the figure before, but it was mentioned that one in 10 gay people have talked about taking their own lives. That is a horrendous figure. We should be doing everything that we can to make sure that no gay person feels that they are in that position.
All young people deserve to see themselves reflected in their learning at school. Learning about LGBT past and present figures at school provides LGBT young people with role models, makes them feel valued and tells them that they should be confident and proud of who they are. LGBT history month can be a powerful opportunity for reflection and awareness raising, but learning about LGBT history should be all year round, not only in February.
Inclusive education is not only impactful for LGBT young people but important for the wider school community. It teaches empathy, improves understanding of prejudice and discrimination, and builds knowledge about diversity and rights in our society.
The pupil workshops for primary and secondary schools that are delivered by TIE cover themes of challenging homophobic language. Far too often, we hear throwaway comments that affect and hurt people. Analysis of TIE’s work found that 93 per cent of pupils who participated in the school workshops had a stronger understanding of the impact of homophobic, biphobic and transphobic bullying behaviours and prejudice than before—that is just since September. The analysis also found that 82 per cent of pupils said that they would no longer use pejorative language, derogatory terms and slurs that they commonly used before, such as, “That’s so gay.” Pupils who participated said that they had learned that
“It’s ok to be LGBT and you shouldn’t be scared to tell anyone”
and
“to not bottle things up”.
I encourage all of us to come together and reflect on the power of people and the strength of solidarity across borders in support of our LGBT community. I am proud to do that.
Michael Marra will be the last speaker before I ask the minister to respond to the debate.
18:33
I want to relate the story of one gay Scottish man. However, in reality it is the story of one letter, which was written by Harry Whyte, a gay working-class Edinburgh man, born in 1907. He was the son of a house painter and he made his living as a journeyman journalist. As such, writing was his daily trade. However, writing this one letter on his typewriter was an act of breathtaking bravery. In writing it, he risked almost certain death.
The letter that Harry Whyte wrote from his Moscow desk in May 1934 was addressed to one Joseph Stalin—it was a letter that Stalin duly read. Harry was a communist—a far more common thing for Scots in the 1930s than it is today. By 1934, at the age of 27, he worked in Russia, at the Moscow Daily News. On March 7 of that year, the Soviet criminal code was revised to prohibit male homosexuality, with up to five years’ hard labour as a penalty. Harry Whyte was outraged, and I have today placed in the Scottish Parliament information centre a copy of the letter that he wrote in response.
Any members who care to read it will see that this letter to the supreme leader is in a very formal Soviet style. It is a model of discourse that would have been well known to many Scots, a way of writing and speaking that we can hear only faint echoes of in how we discuss life, economics and politics today. We might be able to see it, perhaps, in the words of Mick McGahey and Jimmy Reid.
Harry Whyte’s letter analyses the economic weight of a non-reproductive population and speaks the language of socialist state jurisprudence, but at its core is an impassioned plea for equality written under the threat of death. He writes:
“I have always believed that it was wrong to advance the separate slogan of the emancipation of working-class homosexuals from the conditions of capitalist exploitation. I believe that this emancipation is inseparable from the general struggle for the emancipation of all humanity”.
He then argues that homosexuality is natural and cannot be reversed, saying that the law in question was
“absurd and unjust from the viewpoint of science, which has proven the existence of constitutional homosexuals and has no means at its disposal to change the sexual nature of homosexuals.”
Harry Whyte was quite clear a century ago with regard to the science and morality of conversion therapy.
This is certainly a young man’s letter, in its certainty, self-confidence and righteous fervour. To Harry Whyte, he was gay and a socialist, and both were core to his understanding of who he was and his place in the world. The reality of his homosexuality eventually led to his better understanding of the nightmare fictions of Stalinism, the horror of communism and the terror of the absolute power of the state over the individual.
In perhaps the letter’s most startling passage—indeed, it took my breath away—Harry Whyte quotes Comrade Stalin’s own words from the 17th party congress against him. He writes:
“one cannot require that all people should have identical needs and tastes, that all people live their daily lives according to a single model. […]
To conclude from this that socialism requires the egalitarianism, equalization, and leveling of the needs of society’s members, the leveling of their tastes and personal lives, that according to Marxism everyone should wear identical clothes and eat the same quantity of one and the same dishes, is tantamount to uttering banalities”.
What an act of defiance from one man—one Scot—in Moscow. It brought to my mind the shadow life of Shostakovich, who lived in fear of the music in his mind and of suffering for giving it life on a page in Russia. Harry Whyte just wrote it all down.
Stalin wrote on the letter these short words:
“Archive. An idiot and a degenerate. J. Stalin.”
Harry Whyte escaped with his life—just—but not with his communism.
Why does this history matter? Well, it matters tonight to those thousands of gay men and women in Kyiv and across Ukraine. Vladimir Putin is calling on that history—a history of nationalism, populism and a poisonous strongman masculinity—and his campaign of state-sanctioned violence and intimidation of gay men and women in Russia calls to a folk memory of communism. Today’s dictator waging war in Europe again calls to history.
Harry Whyte saw Joseph Stalin, and he would have seen Vladimir Putin. We know who Vladimir Putin is, and Harry Whyte would have known, too.
I call the minister, Christina McKelvie, to respond to the debate. You have around seven minutes, minister.
18:38
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I extend my grateful thanks to you and the other Presiding Officers for your warm welcome back to the chamber, and to everyone who has hung aboot the night and who has been sending me messages to welcome me back. I am back in my place, I am so pleased to be here and I am so grateful for the warm welcome. You will never understand how grateful I am—but I am. [Applause.]
I am delighted to close what is a perfect debate for me to come back to, what with its focus and the thought-provoking contributions from members across the chamber. In his contribution, Paul O’Kane reminded us that the debate is a celebration, in which we should celebrate the progress that we have made, while not forgetting the progress that we have still to make. All members who have spoken in the debate have highlighted the great progress that we have made as a country and have reminded us that it is a case not just of winning rights but of keeping them. We still need to do more to make Scotland a truly inclusive country for all LGBTI people.
Karen Adam, Pam Duncan-Glancy and Maggie Chapman reminded us that, since its inception in 1999, the Scottish Parliament has always sought to advance the rights of LGBTI people. LGBTI equality is a priority for me as a minister, as well as being very close to my heart as an individual.
It is vital that equality is achieved not just here in Scotland, but beyond. As we have heard, this year’s LGBT history month theme is “blurring borders”, which encourages us to come together and consider the experience of LGBT people across the world.
By eloquently telling us the story of Harry Whyte and his letter to Stalin—what a brave man Harry Whyte was—Michael Marra reminded us of the dangerous battles that were fought for equality and those that have still to be fought. I am thinking, in particular, of the current situation involving Russia and the worries of the people of Ukraine. The fact that we are still fighting those battles 100 years on shows that we have work to do.
David Torrance gave us an important reminder that we should celebrate our achievements as a nation and be proud of Scotland as a place where the rights of LGBTI people are realised and where everyone’s identity is respected and celebrated. We know that that does not happen all the time in every sphere, but we need to keep making progress so that that is the case.
David Torrance also reminded us of the precarious and sometimes dangerous situations that LGBTI people around the globe find themselves in, even to this day. We must continue to work hard to ensure that no one is denied rights or opportunities because of their gender identity or sexual orientation, and I believe that our policies and actions at home should be reflected on the world stage.
Tess White gave us stark figures on the countries around the world where being LGBTI is still a criminal offence and mentioned that, in some cases, the imposition of the death penalty is the action that is taken.
Scotland has received international recognition for its progressive approach to LGBT equality, which is down in no small part to the exceptional work of the LGBT community, its organisations and its activists, who have fought for equality and human rights over the past decade, and across parties across the chamber since 1999.
LGBT history month is a cornerstone of that work. It is an opportunity for us to celebrate how far we have come and the lessons that we have learned along the way, and to understand the obstacles and the challenges that still lie ahead of us.
As many other members have done, I thank LGBT Youth Scotland for co-ordinating this year’s history month. It is a key event in our calendars, and one that I look forward to every year. This year, there has been a large number of events online and in person across the country throughout February, which will culminate, this Friday, in the annual fundraising purple Friday. I bought one of those fabulous LGBT Scotland T-shirts that have a Highland cow with a rainbow fringe on them, and I will wear it on Friday.
I say to Maggie Chapman that Dundee pride is wonderful; I am looking forward to going back to that.
I want to say a wee bit more about Scotland’s achievements. Scotland wants to remain on the right side of history on this issue. We want to continue to set world-leading examples, whether on equality, protection from discrimination or inclusion. I believe that Scotland has embraced that responsibility for many years. Scotland has led the way on marriage equality, by legalising civil partnerships in 2005 and introducing same-sex marriage in 2014; the night I voted for that was a proud moment.
The Parliament’s passing of the Historical Sexual Offences (Pardons and Disregards) (Scotland) Act 2018, to which Alex Cole-Hamilton referred, pardoned men who had previously been convicted of same-sex activity under obsolete laws that have now been repealed. As part of the bill process, the Equalities and Human Rights Committee took evidence in private from some amazing men who had convictions. They just wanted to make sure that the world would be a better place for following generations. It was great to hear from them, and the passing of that act was a brilliant piece of work.
We have talked about the work that we have already done, but there is much more to do. We must continue the work to recognise the important contributions that LGBT people and their movements have made throughout history. By promoting awareness of issues that are faced by the LGBT community, their importance will be properly recognised.
On inclusive education, I thank—as I always do—Jordan Daly and Liam Stevenson of the TIE campaign for their enduring commitment to inclusive education. It is vitally important that that effort starts with children and young people, as LGBT children can experience difficulties because of their sexual orientation or gender identity.
In September last year, we became the first country in the world to embed in its education system LGBT-inclusive education. Pam Duncan-Glancy and Paul McLennan said that we must work together to make Scotland the best place to grow up in. We can do that and live up to that aspiration; indeed, we must live up to that aspiration.
Many members have spoken about healthcare. We recognise the need to improve access to, and the delivery of, gender identity services. In December, we published a national health service gender identity services strategic action framework, which describes how we will fund work to address waiting times, multidisciplinary care and support for those who are waiting for access to services. I give a commitment to continue that work and to work with health colleagues.
Many members have raised the issue of gender recognition reform. Next week, we will introduce a gender recognition bill to improve the process for trans people to obtain legal recognition of their acquired gender. The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Housing and Local Government, Shona Robison, will make a parliamentary statement on that. The proposals have led to discussion and debate. We know that there are people who support reform and people who have concerns. The bill will not introduce any new rights for trans people or change the protections that are provided in the Equality Act 2010. Our support for trans rights does not conflict with our continued commitment to uphold and advance women’s rights and equalities. Although there is disagreement on those issues, it is vital that we work together to set a tone of respectful discussion. Jamie Greene spoke about that.
We have also committed to taking the necessary steps this year to end conversion practices in Scotland. Jamie Greene also raised that in his contribution. We are clear that those practices are abhorrent, harmful and discriminatory and that they have no place in our society. By the end of next year, we will introduce legislation that is as comprehensive as possible within our devolved powers in bringing about a ban. I am happy to work with anyone across the parties in doing that. We will establish an expert advisory group to support that ambition. Its membership will be finalised shortly, and I will let members know about that.
I want to touch on hate crime, which is another issue that has come up in the debate. Karen Adam spoke very eloquently about her mum’s experiences, and she reminded us that hate against LGBTI people is still prevalent. We will work with key delivery partners and stakeholders to publish a new hate crime strategy that will build on progress that has been made in tackling prejudice in Scotland, and look to how we can better foster cohesion among a myriad of communities and social groups to confront the forces that seek to drive us apart. Although a rise in recorded levels of hate crime may reflect increased confidence in reporting such crimes to the police, hate crime is never acceptable and it will not be tolerated.
Maggie Chapman and other members have highlighted the rise in hate crime. Paul O’Kane reminded us of the Council of Europe report. Jamie Greene reminded us that one in 10 young people have said that they have considered taking their own life, and he asked us where the outrage is. We have to be the outrage.
In conclusion, we recognise that some people have reasons to doubt their representation in history or to feel left out of Scotland’s story. All members who have spoken in the debate have highlighted the great progress that we have made as a country and have reminded us that it is a case not just of winning rights but of keeping them. We still need to do more to make Scotland a truly inclusive country for all LGBTI people.
LGBT history month provides us with an opportunity to reinforce the sense of belonging, representation and value that everyone has a right to feel. We have come a long way towards a more inclusive and equal Scotland in which everyone feels safe to be themselves, but all members have reminded us that there is still a lot to do. I am very sure that we will all play our part in the chamber.
I will finish with the words that Paul O’Kane reminded us of:
“Hope will never be silent.”
Let the Parliament never be silenced while we do this important work.
Meeting closed at 18:48.Air ais
Decision Time