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The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-15413, in the name of Michelle Thomson, on promoting the role of women in Scotland’s journey to net zero. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament recognises what it sees as the importance of women in business as Scotland strives to achieve net zero targets; understands that there is a need to stimulate more innovation and entrepreneurship amongst STEM-based sectors to contribute directly to building capacity in Scotland, including in the Falkirk East constituency, and recognises that the wider business sectors also have a role to play in achieving net zero; welcomes the July 2024 Global Entrepreneurship Monitor (GEM) report, and particularly the analysis provided by Glasgow, Edinburgh and Strathclyde universities regarding female entrepreneurship in Scotland; celebrates the finding that women are starting and running new businesses at virtually the same rate as men for the first time in Scotland, and that, globally, the female to male gap in entrepreneurship rates is narrowing, and believes that Scotland is leading the way by this measure; considers, therefore, that women entrepreneurs and business leaders will be a vital resource in leading Scotland’s economy towards growth and net zero, but believes that, post-school, the number of females entering STEM-related education, employment or business start-ups remains weak; understands that a 2023 report by Women’s Enterprise Scotland expressed concern that approximately 60% of women-led businesses are somewhat disengaged from achieving net zero, either because of a lack of confidence or a belief that it does not apply to their operations; further understands that a fear of failure is a key cultural barrier to further developing entrepreneurial activity in Scotland at a time when innovation and entrepreneurship will, it believes, be vital to meeting the challenge of achieving net zero, and notes the calls for both effective representation of women in all net zero policy forums and further research into the contribution of women directly in STEM-based businesses and wider business sector activity as net zero is pursued.
12:51
There is significant evidence to suggest that our net zero ambitions are at serious risk unless we have a better focus on mobilising the commitment and talents of women in all areas of policy making, leadership and action. Research shows that women are more committed than men to recognising the need to reach net zero, despite being sidelined in many aspects of the work that is required.
At the 26th United Nations climate change conference of the parties—COP26—which was held in Scotland in 2021, climate change in relation to gender equality was one of the topics that were discussed. A coalition of women’s groups called for women to play a greater role, yet in 2025, we must still repeat those calls.
Perhaps because of that, some positive actions are being taken in Scotland, such as those taken by Scottish Renewables. Its new voices campaign, which is sponsored by Ørsted, provides a year-long series of workshops for 10 participants from underrepresented groups. This year, six of the cohort are women.
However, Scottish Renewables knows that there is a long way to go and points out:
“Women continue to face wide and varying barriers to equality throughout their careers with a lack of encouragement to enter traditionally male dominated fields, such as STEM ... there has so far been a lack of focus on the women involved in the Renewables supply chain in Scotland”.
That must change. Scottish Renewables’ recognition of the issue is supported by international research. The global consultancy Oliver Wyman published research that claimed that although a fifth of major corporations have pledged to reach net-zero emissions, albeit by 2050, few actively considered or included women in their climate action plans. Although diversity and climate change were viewed as priorities, astonishingly, the research notes that
“almost none have considered how linking the two management priorities could accelerate their transition to net zero emissions.”
Some companies, such as Scottish Power, are addressing the problem, and they run programmes that range from international leadership to setting up in-company women networks. Scottish Power says:
“The more we can do as an industry and a society to show the opportunities available to women the more beneficial it will be to our journey to net zero.”
One of the problems in the political sphere is the dominance of overly simplistic, zero-sum thinking, which is beautifully explained in a blog article by Professor Graeme Roy and Sir Anton Muscatelli that the National Institute of Social and Economic Research published this week. From my perspective, we must not see the encouragement of more women into policy-making or leadership roles as if it is part of a zero-sum game with men. It is all about improving the overall impact for everyone’s benefit.
I am extremely grateful to Dr Hannah Salamon from the University of Glasgow for sending me an advance copy of her excellent blog entitled “Where are the women in the UK’s green energy transition?” When looking at the issue of underrepresentation of women, she points out:
“This marginalisation of women in green energy is problematic from two perspectives: first, it threatens the success of the energy transition from a workforce perspective. Second, it withholds the benefits that come along with the fast growth of the green energy sector (financial, social, and political) from women.”
I am particularly grateful to Hannah for offering to work with me in pursuing the agenda further.
Last February, Nesta—formerly the National Endowment for Science, Technology and the Arts—reported on a United Kingdom Government report regarding public awareness and behaviour towards climate change and net zero. The report revealed that men and women think and behave differently when it comes to climate change. Some 93 per cent of men claimed awareness of net zero, but only 78 per cent expressed concern. In contrast, 85 per cent of women claimed both awareness of and concern about net zero. Furthermore, men are more likely than women to anticipate a negative economic impact from a transition to net zero. In other words, men are more likely to see the transition to net zero as a zero-sum game.
Despite women being more concerned, as I have outlined, it is largely men who drive policy making and lead our major businesses. I will highlight a practical example. An article by three University of Cambridge scholars, published less than a month ago, entitled “How Gender Influences the Motivation and Action Towards Climate Change: A Qualitative Study of Participants from a UK Construction Company”, reported on the results of an in-depth investigation of a large construction company. The results give us a clear insight into the difference between male and female actions. Unsurprisingly, where male culture predominates, as it does in construction, there is a lower action focus on climate change. Not only that, but the ways in which actions are carried out is important. The study notes:
“Given that women are more likely to display altruism and empathetic decision-making, it is crucial to incorporate this gender group in key societal decisions, actions and plans.”
I would argue that how we get to net zero, as well as the actions that we take, are important, and empathy and understanding are surely part of that. We must deliver change through people and not to people.
All the prevailing evidence suggests that increasing the engagement of women in net zero policy work, whether in business or in government, will accelerate actions towards net zero. Of course, this debate is about the future, not just the past—a future that I want to see shaped by the active engagement of all sections of our society.
It is not just the energy sector but all sectors of the economy and business that need to change, from the initial small-scale start-ups to large established corporations. The need to focus on net zero is considerable, but action can be accelerated by ensuring that women have a much stronger role to play. Despite its importance in Scotland, it cannot be left to organisations such as Women’s Enterprise Scotland to fight for change, although its pioneering work is to be greatly welcomed.
I would like to ask the cabinet secretary two questions. First, what is the Government’s strategy for involving more women in working specifically towards net zero? Secondly, what research into the role of women in pursuing net zero does the Government currently support?
I do not see this as a party-political issue, and I have deliberately avoided any party comment in my motion and speech. I believe that this is an issue on which members of all parties should and can come together to argue for more women to be engaged in net zero leadership and action. I concede that that is not an issue that can be left to Government alone. This issue—our shared issue—is one for all of humanity.
12:59
Before I begin, I thank my colleague Michelle Thomson for bringing this important issue to the chamber. I know that she cares deeply about women and girls, and that is why I am pleased to be speaking in today’s debate.
The last time that I spoke in a similar debate, I provided examples of actions that have been taken by higher education institutions to encourage women’s inclusion in the science, technology, engineering and mathematics fields. Today, I will use my time to discuss how we can best encourage women to play their part in Scotland’s journey towards net zero through business and education.
It was good to hear Michelle Thomson speak about Scottish Power. Last year, I was pleased to be invited to Scottish Power’s headquarters in Glasgow and to hear about the excellent work that it does to promote women. I heard at first hand about its initiatives to support women and ethnic minorities through organisations such as connected women and its VIBE—voice of inclusion and balanced ethnicity—network.
When it comes to women in enterprise, a 2020 survey from Women’s Enterprise Scotland showed that women-led businesses made up 22 per cent of all employer businesses in Scotland. However, the same survey found that 39 per cent of women entrepreneurs lacked confidence in their companies’ ability to achieve net zero, and only 4 per cent were applying for any related financial support.
Education is key to encouraging women to participate in STEM and business. In my speech on that topic in 2023, I expressed my disappointment in the Government’s decision to roll back funding that it had announced for Scotland’s colleges and universities, yet the latest budget has allocated a real-terms resource funding cut to colleges and universities. I hope that that decision is reconsidered. Universities and colleges do a lot to encourage female entrepreneurship and participation in STEM. For example, West College Scotland’s female boss enterprise challenge empowered young women to become entrepreneurs and to pitch their ideas in front of judges.
Education in STEM must start from a young age. Schools should be encouraging girls to take up STEM subjects. To do so, schools need the resources to recruit teachers who will inspire pupils to love those subjects. Most importantly, we need a change of attitude. To this day, we tell our sons that they should be scientists, doctors or engineers, but it is not often that we tell that to our daughters. I hope that that attitude changes.
We must not forget the importance of investing in the circular economy, and that can happen with the help of businesses. I take this moment to recognise the work that is done by a local business in my area, Gavin’s Mill, in Milngavie. It is a shop and cafe that also operates as a registered charity. It is led by two wonderful women, Julie Hall and Sue Milne, and it engages in sustainability by promoting fair trade, climate justice and education and training, and by serving sustainable and local food. It is an excellent example of how an organisation can promote sustainability, and I hope that more will follow.
I reiterate the importance of advocating for the inclusion of women in the journey towards net zero.
13:02
I, too, thank Michelle Thomson for bringing this important debate to the chamber. I am encouraged by the fact that I have seen more and more women in the top roles at organisations and businesses that I speak to, although a huge amount of work still needs to be done.
Groups such as POWERful Women, Scottish Renewables and trade unions play a key part in encouraging and supporting women to ensure that we maximise their opportunities in the energy sector, because the inequalities are currently stark. As Michelle Thomson said, we need to ensure that women’s equality is at the heart of our action on the climate emergency. A recent article by Care International highlighted the need to involve women in the journey to net zero, pointing out that
“Women and girls in the global south, who have contributed the least to the climate crisis, are bearing the brunt of its impacts. Yet they remain excluded from crucial decision-making and from accessing the resources they need to lead the change for their communities and the planet.”
We, in Scotland, have a global responsibility, but we also have massive opportunities in this area as we create new green and renewables jobs. We can be world leaders. As it stands, however, the UK has a poor record, with only 25 per cent of green energy jobs predicted to be held by women in 2030. We must do better.
There is the potential for us to make the green transition a reality in Scotland, but there is a skills deficit. Any future for renewables without women at the heart of it is not going to work, so we need to see investment by the Scottish Government in creating training opportunities for women throughout Scotland. I hope that the long-awaited energy strategy addresses the issues that have been raised by Close the Gap.
There are massive opportunities, from engineering and construction to finance, project management and communications, but we need a rapid increase in the number of training courses for green skills across our Scottish colleges. The Scottish Government must also think about procurement processes, to ensure that women are brought along on the journey and that, when companies benefit from the green revolution, they also invest in women for the future, to ensure that the transition is gender balanced.
The point that Michelle Thomson highlighted about women’s confidence is crucial, as is Pam Gosal’s point about starting early. Our schools need to tell girls from a young age that they can be involved in the future of energy in Scotland.
Scottish Power’s useful briefing for the debate talked about its sponsorship of camp CEO, a residential programme that enables young women to learn the skills to become green industry leaders of the future. That is a brilliant idea. I would like more such programmes to be adopted across the country, to ensure that women are encouraged to become the next generation of climate leaders and businesses.
Care International’s article says:
“Investing in women-led climate action is not just a matter of fairness—it’s a matter of effectiveness. Studies have shown that when women are included in decision-making and given the resources they need, outcomes are more sustainable, more innovative, and better for everyone.”
We need to get going, push for more action and work together, because that change needs to be delivered for women now.
13:06
I am grateful to my friend and colleague Michelle Thomson for bringing the debate to the chamber. I know how passionate she is about the role and contribution of women in innovation and entrepreneurship in Scotland, and I commend her contribution and commitment to that.
I also commend the work of the cross-party group on women in enterprise, which Michelle Thomson convenes. The group has provided an excellent forum in which women entrepreneurs can collaborate on issues such as access to finance, internationalisation, the underrepresentation of women in enterprise and, of course, women in energy.
The motion is comprehensive and, although there is a need to stimulate innovation and entrepreneurship in STEM-based sectors, it recognises the role of the wider business sectors in achieving net zero. I refer to technology and digital skills, planners, lawyers and corporate hospitality, to name but a few. The motion also highlights the fact that the number of females entering STEM-related education, employment and business start-ups remains weak in Scotland.
My interest in women in STEM is deeply linked to the north-east energy sector and the rapidly growing demand for a strong STEM workforce to help Scotland become a global energy hub. Women entrepreneurs have a central role in that positive economic journey, and a lot of work is already being done in the energy sector to make that happen.
Earlier this session, I led a members’ business debate on increasing the participation of women and girls in STEM learning and careers. Women in academia told me of the crucial role of inspirational teachers, parents and carers in shaping positive attitudes about gender and work. They also told me that the parity in STEM learning between boys and girls gives way to a divergence as children move through secondary school, with girls being significantly less likely than boys to choose STEM subjects beyond higher stage—the leaky pipeline. Given that girls often perform better than boys across all STEM subjects at school, and despite the fact that we can now purchase a Barbie professor doll, we must ask what is behind that divergence.
Beyond education, women told me of common themes in the challenges that women in STEM face, such as access to affordable childcare, after-school clubs and elder care. There is also much consensus on how to respond, and there are some good examples of work that is already under way.
I note that the 2024 Global Entrepreneurship Monitor report, which is mentioned in the motion, sets out further comprehensive detail on the support and resources that women entrepreneurs need—for example, access to markets and financing, and regulations that make working for themselves at least as attractive as being employed.
The headline figures in the Scottish Government pathways report on women in entrepreneurship are that one in five of Scotland’s entrepreneurs are women and that 2 per cent of institutional investment in Scotland goes to women-led companies. I was pleased to hear the Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic respond to Michelle Thomson’s questions at a recent meeting of the Economy and Fair Work Committee about the funding that derived from that piece of work. She confirmed her desire to
“take the funding to £4 million”—[Official Report, Economy and Fair Work Committee, 8 January 2025; c 26.]
in the coming year. I also commend Michelle Thomson for her tenacity in probing further, not just on funding but on issues such as culture and data—both of which are extremely important. I am very keen to hear more detail on the progress in relation to the pathways report in the cabinet secretary’s response.
I commend all the women entrepreneurs in Scotland who are taking the brave steps to secure their own livelihoods, shape their own futures and change the world. I wish Michelle Thomson all the best in helping to create better opportunities for women in business.
The final speaker in the open debate is Lorna Slater—for around four minutes, please.
13:11
I, too, am very grateful to Michelle Thomson for hosting this debate.
Only 16.5 per cent of engineers in the UK are women. The recent report on the engineering skills gap outlines how far we are from having the skilled workforce that we need to fully take advantage of all the opportunities ahead of us as we build a low-carbon economy. Transitioning to a new type of economy is about not just finding new jobs for oil and gas workers—most of whom are men—but unlocking opportunities for the whole country.
Among the concerns on all our minds is how we maintain our income tax revenue as high-paying oil and gas jobs disappear. If we can support significant numbers of women, who, historically, are lower paid, to take up training in engineering and skilled trades, we tackle both problems—having skilled workers and increasing our income tax take—not to mention tackling inequality and boosting our economy more generally.
We have an exciting opportunity here for a generation of 21st century Rosie the Riveters: Rosie the control systems engineer, Miriam the welder, Fiona the pipe fitter. There are many known barriers to women taking up such jobs: a lack of role models, and teachers steering girls away from studying maths, physics and computers.
When the Economy and Fair Work Committee visited Ferguson Marine, we had the chance to speak to a group of apprentices—all young men. When they were asked what made them decide to take up the apprenticeship, the answers were, “Because my uncle did this,” and, “Because my parents said that if you have a trade, you’ve got a job for life.”
When I challenged the human resources representative about the lack of women, the response that I got was, “Well, we go along to the local high schools regularly, and we ask the girls if they have a passion for shipbuilding—and they say no.” I was absolutely gobsmacked. Young men need only to go along with their family expectations and a desire for well-paid regular work, but young women are expected to demonstrate enormous passion for the topic. That is a huge inequality and barrier.
Efforts to get more women into skilled trades and engineering in Scotland have been haphazard at best. Questions are normally met with the response, “Well, we are doing things. They are just not working.” No, they are not working. It takes a critical mass—about 35 per cent women in a space—to change the social dynamic to one where women can start to feel welcome, normal and not singled out.
The goal, therefore, needs to be to get critical masses of women into key skills areas, and I have some suggestions that will work. There should be gender quotas for any skills programmes that are funded by public money—apprenticeships, college placements and scholarships. Publicly funded colleges should not be allowed to trap young women into low-paid careers, and they need to review the gender ratios in all their courses with respect to the wages that their graduates are achieving. Apprenticeships should be open to people of any age, to enable everybody who needs it to retrain in key areas. That would support women, career returners and career changers.
Every strategy in the green economy—the energy strategy, the national strategy for economic transformation and the climate emergency skills action plan—must have clear, actionable steps to improve gender balance, and not just a footnote of warm, fuzzy intentions that does not actually lead to anyone doing or changing anything.
Organisations that are doing well with gender balance need to be asked how they are achieving that and must be given the opportunity to share best practice. Examples from other countries should be investigated, as other countries have much higher numbers of women in engineering and similar trades. Schools and careers advisers must actively encourage all young people, but especially women, to study maths, physics, computing and practical skills. We need to tell a story about gaining the skills to save the world, about the excitement and rewards of working as part of a team, and about problem solving and coming up with creative solutions. An exciting future is waiting for Scotland’s women. The implementation of the recommendations of the Withers review are an opportunity to address the matter seriously. I hope that the Scottish Government will do so.
13:16
I join others in thanking Michelle Thomson for securing the motion for debate in the chamber. I am conscious that, if there is to be progress on this very important issue, there has to be a collective effort, with responsibilities clearly outlined for the private sector and the public sector. More than that, there is a responsibility on us all to raise it as an issue of importance in the political chamber and in our culture.
The debate has highlighted an opportunity to do more cross-party work. I would be happy to convene a small cross-party discussion that considers the issues in greater detail, which could perhaps be chaired by Michelle Thomson, with contributions from members and others who are not in the political space.
Michelle Thomson has set out a number of questions that she, understandably, posed to me in the Government about what the Government is doing to involve more women in net zero and what research the Government currently conducts. There might be an opportunity to follow up the debate with a cross-party conversation, if others such as Pam Gosal, Sarah Boyack and Lorna Slater would be interested in that. We could consider what form that should take.
Michelle Thomson made the point that the way in which we reach net zero matters just as much as getting there, which is vital. Essentially, it is about the definition of “just transition”. We are all guilty of using the term without thinking about what it means. The first word—“just”—implies equity and justice, and an elimination and eradication of inequity and inequality. As the statistics that a number of members have shared during the debate illustrate, the transition is anything but just as yet. Pam Gosal noted that 22 per cent of businesses are women led, and 39 per cent lack confidence about net zero. Sarah Boyack said that 25 per cent of green energy jobs are predicted to be held by women, which shows an inherent inequity. Lorna Slater said that 16.5 per cent of engineers in the UK are women, and we know that engineering will be critical for the just transition.
Those figures all illustrate that, if the just transition is indeed going to be just, we need to understand the impact on gender. As Audrey Nicoll outlined, we are dealing with, in her words, a “leaky pipeline”, in that the challenge is not the level of initial interest—or even the level of initial job entry—but what happens to those jobs. Sarah Boyack said that it is a question of not just fairness but effectiveness. For the just transition to work, it must be just on the basis of gender, and, if it is to be a transition—in other words, if it is to be effective—we need women in the driving seat, too.
I agree that much of this has to be involved in the just transition. Obviously, we are still waiting for the energy strategy and just transition plan. Will this issue be covered in the plan, and will we see the plan this financial year?
Sarah Boyack spoke in similar terms about putting a lot of store in the energy strategy, which I gently suggest is the wrong approach. We know a lot of what we need to do right now with regard to the just transition plan, which I do think should be conscious of skills. I imagine that the energy strategy will be the subject of extensive debate. Sadly, though, I imagine that the support for women that is or is not in the plan will probably get very little attention, considering some of the other issues that it raises.
I ask the Deputy First Minister to read Close the Gap’s submission, which addresses all those issues and highlights how we need to do more.
That is great—I will happily do so. Perhaps that confirms my point. I get a little bit nervous when people identify a strategy that has yet to be published as holding the answers, when, actually, we kind of know what we need to do, even on the basis of the stats that have been shared today.
I want to identify some of the work that needs to be done and which has been done. Michelle Thomson acknowledged the progress that has been made in recent years in closing the gender gap in business start-ups and participation. More women are seeing and seizing the opportunities of entrepreneurship; indeed, the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor 2024 report highlights the parity in levels of early entrepreneurial activity for the first time in Scotland. The growth that the Global Entrepreneurship Monitor has set out reflects years of work by many across the chamber and by organisations such as Women’s Enterprise Scotland, whose research has prompted today’s debate.
There is more to do to ensure that women-led businesses are able to prosper beyond the start-up stage, to become established, sustainable and thriving businesses and to secure the funding and investment needed to grow and scale. I am responding to today’s debate, because I lead the work to implement the recommendations of Ana Stewart’s report, “Pathways: A New Approach for Women in Entrepreneurship”.
There is record funding of £2.6 million this financial year to widen participation in entrepreneurship through delivery of the pathways fund and the South of Scotland Enterprise pre-start regional pilot, and that funding will increase to at least £4 million in the next financial year. The Techscaler programme, our £42 million national programme for creating, developing and scaling tech start-ups, has active partnerships with organisations explicitly focused on supporting female entrepreneurship, such as AccelerateHER. It works in partnership to run hackathons and focused development events to address challenges such as reducing carbon emissions and advancing clean technologies, providing a platform for female-led ventures in clean energy, transport and legal tech. A number of new and innovative women-led businesses have been supported through that.
I appreciate that I am out of time, Presiding Officer, but, if I may, I want to make a short comment about education. Pam Gosal said that education is key, and that is quite clear. We need a pipeline of founders and people with the right mix of skills. Today’s young people are the entrepreneurs of the future. The young STEM leader programme gives young people in Scotland the chance to become STEM role models and to inspire their peers to develop an interest. That is key when it comes to inspiring women to get involved. It is important that we retain the skills and talent of women and girls in STEM jobs once we have sparked that interest, and we are funding Equate Scotland, through the equality and human rights fund, to support women’s recruitment to, retention in, return to and success in STEM jobs, where they are significantly underrepresented.
The fact that I am a minute and a half over my time illustrates the number of comments that could be made about the issue. I invite colleagues across the chamber to take the matter up in a different forum to consider the data and what we can do jointly.
I thank you for your discretion with the time, Presiding Officer, and I thank Michelle Thomson for bringing the debate to the chamber.
Thank you very much, Deputy First Minister. That concludes the debate, and I suspend this meeting of Parliament until 2 o’clock.
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