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Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Thursday, March 20, 2025


Contents


Portfolio Question Time


Education and Skills


School Safety (Highlands and Islands)

To ask the Scottish Government how it is ensuring that schools in the Highlands and Islands are safe learning environments for pupils and staff. (S6O-04466)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

Although it is the statutory responsibility of local authorities to manage and maintain their school estates, the Scottish Government expects them to provide safe learning environments for all pupils and staff. As a result of continued investment by central Government and local government, the proportion of schools that are in good or satisfactory condition increased from 62.7 per cent in 2007 to 91.7 per cent in 2024. However, I want that progress to stretch further so, tomorrow, Scottish Government officials will participate in an event with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, local authorities, the Scottish Futures Trust and other stakeholders to talk to this important matter.

Jamie Halcro Johnston

The issue of violence in our schools was raised with the First Minister at First Minister’s question time earlier today. As is the case across Scotland, there is a worrying increase in violence in Highland schools. Figures that have been passed to me suggest that a member of staff in a Highland school is assaulted approximately every 22 minutes, with 3,408 reported incidents in the 2023-24 school year, and there are rising concerns about violence involving knives, improvised weapons such as scissors and sexual assaults in our schools. Given that the First Minister failed to give a detailed response when he was questioned on the subject, can the cabinet secretary advise me what specific and immediate actions the Scottish Government is taking to tackle the crisis and ensure the safety of staff and pupils?

Jenny Gilruth

I thank the member for his interest in the matter, which was raised at First Minister’s question time today. He asked what specific action the Government is taking. The First Minister set out in his response the specific action that I have taken in relation to the action plan. However, to give the member some comfort, I note that the action plan will be updated in the coming weeks, and I am more than happy to write to him to provide an update on that work.

The First Minister also spoke to some of the challenges that we are seeing in our schools in relation to misogyny. Last year, the Government launched a gender framework in that respect and looked at supporting schools with direct resources around that issue.

More interestingly, perhaps, given the member’s question, the Time for Inclusive Education campaign has been rolling out some work in relation to tackling misinformation in our schools. I was in a school recently—two weeks ago—when that fascinating work was launched, and it links exactly to the question that Mr Cole-Hamilton put during First Minister’s question time.

The Government has also provided an uplift in funding in relation to some of these challenges.

As the member will have heard in the First Minister’s response, some of the issues relate to Covid, but there have been changes more broadly in relation to behaviour and relationships.

I am conscious of time, but I am happy to write to the member with more detail if that would be useful.

Emma Roddick (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)

It is so important that the facilities that teachers and pupils teach and learn in are positive and of a high standard, and I know that there is great excitement at the moment about the new Nairn academy building. Can the cabinet secretary give more detail on the investment that is being made in the Highlands and Islands through the learning estate investment programme?

Jenny Gilruth

Ms Roddick is absolutely right to raise the importance of the school estate, which I mentioned in my response to Mr Halcro Johnston, as we know that the quality of the school estate can help to make a positive impact on attainment. Through the £2 billion learning estate investment programme, the Scottish Government will provide the Highlands and Islands with substantial funding for nine school infrastructure projects, which includes £21.3 million for the new Nairn academy, which the member has spoken about, and £23.4 million for the Tain campus.


Additional Support Needs (Islands)

2. Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD)

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to ensure that there is adequate access to support in schools for children with additional support needs in island areas, including the Orkney Islands constituency. (S6O-04467)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

Local authorities oversee the delivery of education and have a statutory duty to identify, provide for, and review the support that they provide for pupils with additional support needs in their local school communities, including the Orkney Islands. Spending on additional support for learning by local authorities has reached a record high of more than £1 billion in 2023-24, and the 2025-26 budget allocates a further £29 million of investment for ASN. In addition, the national e-learning offer provides a range of online support and resources to supplement local provision.

Liam McArthur

I welcome the cabinet secretary’s response. Notwithstanding that, Audit Scotland has made it clear that ministers have not done enough to plan for the growing demand for ASL provision, and that funding arrangements are not currently fit for purpose. Unmet demand is one of the most significant risks for Orkney Islands Council’s education services, with pressures on staff recruitment and retention as well as a shrinking school estate contributing to the inability of schools to provide the support that children who have additional needs require. In Orkney, all children who require additional support, including those who have more complex needs, are provided for by mainstream schooling, but mainstream schools are excluded from the funding that is available for special schools.

What will the cabinet secretary do to address the specific island dimension to the wider, and growing, problems with the delivery of ASL to pupils across Scotland?

Jenny Gilruth

I am mindful of Audit Scotland’s report, which I responded to two weeks ago. I am keen to engage with Audit Scotland on the detail of its report, which talks to the Scottish Government’s funding and the need for more granularity to ensure that it gets to those who need it most. I know that the member will welcome the extra funding that is being provided through phase 3 of the learning estate investment programme to the Orkney Islands Council, which will provide funding to support the Kirkwall ASN centre project. I am keen to reflect on the member’s specific question about how our policy interacts with islands provision with my officials, and I am more than happy to engage with him on that point.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Stephen Kerr has requested a supplementary. I point out that the question in the business bulletin concerns children with additional support needs in island areas, including the Orkney Islands constituency. If that is the matter that Mr Kerr wishes to ask a supplementary question about, he is most welcome to do that.

Yes, it is specifically and generally about the Audit Scotland report. [Interruption.]

Mr Kerr, it has to relate to children’s additional support needs in island areas, including the Orkney Islands constituency.

As I say, it is specific, but it also has application in other authorities.

I am not going to get into it. I am giving you the opportunity to come up with something that relates to the question that is in the business bulletin. Please either continue or do not.

Stephen Kerr

I am referring to the Audit Scotland report. I wrote to the cabinet secretary and she kindly replied to me. In her reply, she said that

“We know that there is a general consensus across our education system, that the principles of inclusion—on which our system is based—are sound.”

Does the cabinet secretary accept that, in some instances, the presumption of mainstreaming has gone too far, to the detriment of the children with additional support needs and the learning environment in the classroom?

Mr Kerr, that did not relate—

In Orkney.

The Deputy Presiding Officer

Well, if that is the level of participation.

Cabinet secretary, please respond to Mr Kerr to the extent that the question relates to the subject matter of the substantive question that is in the business bulletin.

Jenny Gilruth

The member and I recently discussed the issue during a members’ business debate. I do not accept the premise of the member’s point about the presumption of mainstreaming, but I am happy to engage with him on the substantive issue of funding. I have to note, as I did in the recent members’ business debate, which was led by Alexander Stewart, that the Conservatives failed to support the Government’s budget, which provided an extra £29 million for additional support needs, including for children who live in the Orkney Islands.


Additional Support Needs (Learning Environments)

3. Evelyn Tweed (Stirling) (SNP)

To ask the Scottish Government how it supports schools to ensure that pupils with additional support needs can access learning environments that meet their needs without being excluded from activities or isolated from their peers. (S6O-04468)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

All children and young people should receive the support that they need to reach their full potential. Local authorities have a statutory duty to identify and provide such support and to review the support that they provide for pupils with additional support needs in the local community.

Complementing that, curriculum for excellence provides a broad framework within which educators are empowered to provide learning and teaching experiences that best suit the needs of individual learners. That includes taking into account choice and personalisation for the learner in curriculum design and delivery.

Evelyn Tweed

I have several constituents who have taken their children out of school because the additional support provision isolated them from their peers. What steps does the Government take to engage with local authorities to ensure that parents in that situation have access to resources to support home education?

Jenny Gilruth

We engage regularly with local authorities, particularly via the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. The member will be aware of the establishment of the new education assurance board, which will meet in the next two weeks to talk about improving relationships and the delivery of services in education.

We have an inclusive education approach in Scotland. That was something that the national discussion, in which COSLA and local government were key partners, highlighted as a strength in our provision.

There is a wide range of educational provision in Scotland that meets the needs of children and young people with additional support needs. Our councils are responsible for determining the most appropriate provision to suit the needs of those learners.

Martin Whitfield (South Scotland) (Lab)

The Government rightly supports the presumption of mainstreaming. When we get education right for pupils with ASN, we get it right for the vast majority of pupils. When did the Government last specifically evaluate the additional cost of mainstreaming? Given the increase in the number of ASN-identified pupils, does current funding match that evaluation?

Jenny Gilruth

That is quite a wide-ranging question. I am keen to come back to the member in relation to the increase in additional support needs in recent years. Some of that shift has been as a result of the Government broadening out definitions, which we think was a welcome move at the time. Undoubtedly, that has led to an increase. It has also been driven by more diagnosis, which is hugely important.

The member talks about resourcing. In a previous response, I talked about the record levels of spending that are going from central Government to local government—there was £1 billion in the past financial year, which was supplemented by £29 million of investment.

To go back to Mr McArthur’s point in relation to the Audit Scotland report, it is hugely important that the Government has granularity in the detail of the extra funding that we are protecting at national level and important that that is going to those who need it most at local level. Through the education assurance board, which I mentioned in my response to Evelyn Tweed, we will continue to have those discussions with COSLA.

Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con)

Related to ASN delivery, I had a meeting yesterday with the Royal College of Psychiatrists in Scotland, which warned that there has been an unprecedented rise in referrals for neurological conditions, with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder levels rising by up to 800 per cent in just two years across health boards. Conditions in the health service mean that waiting lists are now of up to eight years, which has an impact on education services and ASN. The RCP in Scotland highlights that one of the reasons for the situation is the lack of access to activities such as outdoor learning and sport—activities that give children an outlet for their anxiety and enthusiasm. When will the Scottish Government recognise the need to reverse the decline in such activities in our schools, to the betterment of pupils’ mental health and education?

Jenny Gilruth

The member spoke to some of the challenges in relation to neurological conditions and in particular the increases that we have seen. I mentioned in my response to Mr Whitfield the rationale behind some of those increases, which I accept.

Brian Whittle also spoke to the need for diagnosis and the waiting times that are perhaps associated with that. I again put on record that, from an educational perspective, there is no requirement for a formal diagnosis in order for a young person to obtain support. That is really important in relation to how young people receive support in school.

The member mentioned outdoor education, which is hugely important. In all my visits as cabinet secretary, I see it as a pillar of our approach to education in Scotland, particularly in relation to our younger, early years settings, where I see it routinely used. I am not necessarily sure that I accept the final premise of the member’s question about a reduction in that area.


Co-ordinated Support Plans

To ask the Scottish Government what action it is taking to ensure that local authorities provide co-ordinated support plans for pupils who need extra support. (S6O-04469)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

We must be clear that arrangements for a co-ordinated support plan should be put in place to enable crucial individual support and interventions when multiple agencies are involved in supporting a child or young person, but that having such a plan is not a requirement for accessing additional support for learning. When a young person or child requires a co-ordinated support plan, education authorities have a legal duty to put arrangements in place to identify that need.

I am committed to including further clarity on the relationship between the CSP and other plans in a staged intervention model that will form part of the refreshed code of practice on additional support for learning. Meanwhile, as part of our work on the ASL action plan, we are developing national professional learning resources and accessible information and guidance on CSPs for children, young people, parents and carers.

Clare Adamson

As the cabinet secretary mentioned, demand for additional support needs services is rising. Consistency in the provision of such services across local authority areas is imperative. My recent casework suggests that my local education authority is reluctant to implement co-ordinated support plans and will call any other plan anything but a CSP that has statutory underpinning. We have made referrals to the Enquire advice service, which has helped my constituents who seek additional support needs services and parents who want to establish co-ordinated support plans. I would welcome the cabinet secretary’s assessment of the position and ask her to outline the Scottish Government’s guidance on ensuring consistency of approach across local authority areas on determining which plans are relevant in—

Thank you, Ms Adamson. The cabinet secretary has got the gist of your question.

Jenny Gilruth

I welcome the fact that support has been provided by the Enquire service, which is funded by the Scottish Government. Members have raised several points about the statutory responsibilities of local authorities; I need to be mindful of the position. Local authorities hold the legislative responsibility to deliver our education services. However, we need to work in partnership with them, which is why I mentioned the education assurance board in a number of my earlier responses. The approach that we have set out allows local authorities to respond to the individual needs of their children and young people accordingly. If the member were able to share more information with me on the specific issue that she has raised, I would be happy to engage with her on that.

Through the budget, we are putting in the extra funding that I mentioned. We are also providing an extra £15 million per year and, separately, £11 million to directly support pupils with complex additional support needs and provide services to children and families. The member spoke to some of that work, which is being delivered via Enquire.


Maths (Secondary Schools)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the action being taken to support maths learning in secondary schools. (S6O-04470)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

Education Scotland is leading the curriculum improvement cycle, which aims to strengthen the curriculum for pupils aged from three to 18, improve attainment, and support a more consistent teaching and learning experience for our young people.

Given that maths is a national priority, the national maths specialist is assisting Education Scotland, local authorities and the teaching profession in reviewing the maths curriculum. In parallel, Education Scotland, with support from the Scottish Government, is providing professional learning packages to teachers to achieve further improvements in the teaching of maths and numeracy across all stages. We are also investing to maximise the number of maths teachers.

Audrey Nicoll

The importance of having maths qualifications for young people who seek to enter the renewables industry and other sectors in Scotland cannot be overstated. I was lucky enough to discuss maths learning with a group of modern apprentices during my recent visit to North East Scotland College to celebrate Scottish apprenticeship week. Will the cabinet secretary outline what more can be done to support regional colleges to engage with school-age children, to showcase how maths and numeracy are used in a multitude of engaging and dynamic ways in vocational careers such as engineering and construction, and to show how more people can benefit from colleges’ strong links with industry in their delivery of training?

Jenny Gilruth

I hope that all members were engaged in activities for Scottish apprenticeship week, which was held recently and which offers an opportunity to celebrate the importance of apprenticeships. On the specifics of the member’s question, our colleges plan their course provision in line with the needs of their local areas. In my area, Fife College works closely with our schools to establish such partnerships and works with industry more broadly.

The Scottish Government has provided investment through the developing the young workforce initiative. Since 2014, we have seen a sizeable increase in the numbers of young people who achieve vocational and technical qualifications. In 2022-23, 30.4 per cent of school leavers gained such qualifications at level 5 or above, which is certainly welcome news.


Additional Support Needs (School Placements)

To ask the Scottish Government what support there is for the parents or guardians of children and young people with additional support needs who require a specific school placement. (S6O-04471)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

All children and young people should learn in an environment that best suits their needs. Our education authorities are responsible for setting school admission policies, which will include details of how to make placing requests, the procedures for dealing with parental placing requests and the associated appeals processes.

Education authorities also have a duty to comply with placing requests from parents when their child has additional support needs, unless specific exemptions apply. The Government funds the Enquire service to provide advice to parents on the placing request system and how those decisions can be appealed.

Fulton MacGregor

I welcome the recent investment from the Scottish Government for the “Let’s talk ASN” service, which had been suspended towards the end of last year. What assurance can the cabinet secretary give that the service, which is valued by many of my constituents as well as by many others across the country, will remain available, especially when more parents and carers increasingly require support for children in ASN settings?

Jenny Gilruth

The “Let’s talk ASN” service provides a vital advocacy and legal representation service to families when there is a dispute about additional support for learning. Following demand-led pressures in autumn last year, the service reopened on 3 January, and any cases that could not be addressed during the period in which the service was temporarily suspended have been offered free legal advice.

To ensure that the service will continue to meet demand, we have increased the funding that will be available to it through a new contract, which will begin in April. We will also continue to work closely with the service contractor, Govan Law Centre, to monitor demand and ensure that it is met.

We are not aware of any referrals being turned away since the service reopened, but if the member would like to share any details or has any further information on that, I would be more than happy to consider the matter.


Wellbeing (School Pupils and Staff)

To ask the Scottish Government what work it is carrying out with local authorities regarding the wellbeing of school pupils and staff. (S6O-04472)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

The wellbeing of staff and pupils is an absolute priority for the Scottish Government. As well as our continued investment of £16 million a year to support school counselling services, we have recently re-established the mental health in schools working group to consider relevant advice about children and young people’s mental health.

We are also working with the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland to establish a national health and wellbeing group that will bring together good practice and build a comprehensive and consistent wellbeing offer for school staff across all local authorities. The group will meet this spring.

Elena Whitham

Recently, I have received a worrying increase in casework contacts relating to young people who are experiencing bullying in school, and relating to bullied young people not feeling safe to attend school, which is causing their learning experience to be significantly disrupted. Those young people and their parents or guardians tell me that they do not believe that the young persons’ experiences have been listened to or acted on, while the instigators appear to experience few consequences for their actions and continue to remain in school.

I fully recognise that competing needs of all individuals in the school campus need to be considered and that there are usually underlying issues that lead to such behaviour, but does the cabinet secretary agree that no pupil, teacher or member of staff should have to suffer abuse in our schools? Can she advise on what can be done to ensure that local authorities and, indeed, heads of education are held accountable, in that regard?

Jenny Gilruth

I am absolutely clear that no pupil, teacher or member of staff should have to suffer abuse in our schools. Our schools need to be safe and consistent learning environments for all.

In November, we published updated anti-bullying guidance that makes very clear our expectations of schools and local authorities on preventing and responding to bullying. I am especially mindful of the corrosive impact of disinformation, which I spoke about previously today, and online hate, in relation to our young people’s experience of their education.

In January, I visited Cathkin high school to talk about the new digital discourse initiative that has been created by the Time for Inclusive Education group and ISD Global. That resource specifically provides practical strategies and curriculum tools to help schools to counter the effects of online hate and disinformation on young people, and to challenge and address those issues in schools.

Sue Webber has a brief supplementary question.

Sue Webber (Lothian) (Con)

Cabinet secretary, in relation to your comments on digital and online resources and online hate, a parent in Edinburgh has revealed that secondary 1 pupils have been sharing extreme content, including pornography and violent videos, while at school, which is leaving her son distressed and suffering from nightmares. Despite growing concerns, the Scottish Government has only issued guidance, which that mother says is simply not enough.

Given the clear impact on students’ wellbeing, cabinet secretary, do you think that schools should be left to handle the issue alone, or will the Government finally acknowledge best practice and take responsibility for introducing a national ban on mobile phones in schools?

Always speak through the chair.

I apologise.

Jenny Gilruth

I thank the member for her question. She alluded to the guidance that we publish on mobile phones. She also spoke about an issue in relation to her constituent accessing content on a phone, I think, during the school day. The mobile phone guidance that we published in August—not very long ago, at all—goes as far as I am legally able to go, as a minister in the Scottish Government. The Scottish Government does not have the power to introduce a national ban on mobile phones: that power rests with local authorities.

I am more than happy to raise the issue directly with the City of Edinburgh Council, if that would appease the member on the issues that she has raised today. I recognise her strength of feeling, but the national guidance goes as far as I am able to go, at present.


Scottish Digital Academy

To ask the Scottish Government what impact the Scottish digital academy is having on improving digital skills in Scotland. (S6O-04473)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

The Scottish digital academy is central to transforming Scotland’s public services through the development of digital skills and workforce capability. However, that sits within the business portfolio.

As part of the education and skills portfolio, options are being explored to expand e-Sgoil as part of the national e-learning offer, in order to deliver on the national digital academy commitment to broaden curricular choice and pathways for young people in our schools, through facilitating delivery of some national qualifications and vocational qualifications online. Although that is not explicitly about developing digital skills, it will support young people in improving their digital literacy.

In addition, digital literacy is being considered as a cross-curricular theme in the curriculum improvement cycle. That will clarify and strengthen the position and alignment of digital literacy in our curriculum areas in order to better support learners’ needs.

Willie Coffey

According to ScotlandIS, something like 13,000 new vacancies in digital technologies are created every year, with the number rising year on year. There is a worldwide shortage of software developers, at a time when the digital revolution is having more and more of an impact on our daily lives. Salaries are pretty good, and the industry and careers can be exciting, variable and long lasting.

With that in mind, will the cabinet secretary say more about how we in Scotland can capitalise on that demand, and encourage more of our younger people to take up software development at school and join that dynamic and fantastic industry?

Jenny Gilruth

The Scottish Government very much recognises the critical role of software development in driving innovation and in relation to economic growth and the jobs that it will inevitably provide in the future, for the next generation.

We are working closely to inspire more young people to pursue careers in technology by investing in digital education, which I spoke about previously, and by strengthening the pathways into the sector. We have initiatives such as Techscaler, the coding boot camps and partnerships with industry, which are helping to build a skilled workforce.

More broadly, my colleague Mr Dey is leading on some of our interesting work in relation to the careers collaboratives, which will provide for young people a strengthened offering in relation to future job opportunities in the sector.

That concludes portfolio questions on education and skills. There will be a short pause before we move on to the next item of business.