The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-11875, in the name of Pam Duncan-Glancy, on stand up for quality education. I invite members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons.
14:55
My party and I have long believed that education can be a great leveller, spreading opportunity for all, and that it should be built on the values of opportunity and ambition and of high aspiration and standards for every child who passes through the gates of any school in any part of our country. However, we know that it will not do that by accident; it happens only by design.
I and my party have brought this debate to the chamber today because we are worried that we face systemic challenges in education that could hold back our potential. Since I became Scottish Labour’s spokesperson on education, I have found that, no matter what stone I turn over or what corner I look around, there are deep and wide-ranging challenges, despite the best efforts of our outstanding teachers, the hard work of our pupils and the tenacity of our parents.
There is a quote from a teacher in the national discussion report that has stuck with me and it sums up the challenges well. It is this:
“In my class of 30, 4 have ASD ... 3 have longstanding ... anxiety difficulties ... one has been adopted, one”
is
“experiencing a form of trauma, one is a young carer, 2 others have severe learning difficulties. ... There is only one of me—I can’t give those ... children enough of my attention to support their wellbeing, never mind their and the other ... children’s learning needs .... I know exactly what support each child needs but can’t split myself 30 ways”.
That quote not only sums up the complexities that our teachers face but shines a light on why classrooms are becoming a bit like pressure cookers. With concerns bubbling up, they are vulnerable to overflowing. The result is behavioural concerns, teachers at the end of their tether and, yes, declining standards in education. We have to address all of that if we are to rebuild our education system and spread opportunity for all.
Back in December, I was grateful to the cabinet secretary for finally recognising that standards are slipping, but it should not have taken Scotland falling behind our neighbours and our international peers for the Government to take action. For too long, pupils, teachers and parents have seen a reality that is very different from the picture that their Government has painted. That disconnect has left them wondering why their Government is not listening and why the promises that were made on contact time and free breakfasts for primary school pupils, which ensure that they start the day fed and ready to learn, remain undelivered. They are watching in anticipation of what we—their representatives and the Government—will do to give them the education system that they want and deserve; to make classrooms the safe, nurturing and conducive environments that they should be; and to ensure that children are in those classrooms. They are looking for leadership to address the decline not just in academic performance but in pupil engagement.
Parents, teachers and unions recognise, as I do, that we must view challenges not in isolation but as interconnected parts with a cause-and-effect relationship that demands our urgent attention. The Educational Institute of Scotland’s stand up for quality education campaign is a fantastic example of an interconnected and systemic approach to delivering the education that we need. The first issue that it raises is teacher workload, which is a concern that will resonate with all who are working across our education system. Teachers are the architects of our children’s futures and the backbone of the system, and we need them to be at their best if we are to achieve our goal of opportunity for all. Right now, however, they are overburdened by an excessive workload, stretched across competing demands and tangled up in bureaucracy, all of which hinders their ability to deliver the quality education that they got into the profession to provide. The solution lies in concrete measures to alleviate those burdens, including the promised increase in non-contact time to provide teachers with the breathing space that they need. I repeat my ask that the Government confirms when that will be delivered.
However, it is not just the conditions that are difficult. The issue is compounded by the continued use of temporary teaching contracts. Five thousand of our teachers are without stable, permanent positions and are facing insecurity. It is no wonder, then, that teacher numbers are down in secondary schools, but we need them to be on the rise. Furthermore, the number of teachers who are still teaching after their first year has dropped from its level five years ago. It is a self-perpetuating cycle that is created by Government inaction. Reduced teacher numbers also make it more difficult to deliver on the promise of non-contact time.
The shortages are not felt equally. Some areas and subjects are faring worse. One way to address that is to ask probationary teachers to opt in to the preference waiver payment scheme. However, as a result of the precarity of the situation, the number who opt to do that has reduced, which is exacerbating gaps in geographical provision and undermining equality.
Teaching is an incredible profession to enter. The opportunities to shape lives are numerous, and we should cherish and value it. However, there is a recruitment and retention crisis, which is a product of much more than concerns about salaries and wages. It is about the conditions in the room, the lack of support for pupils with additional support needs, and pupils’ violence and poor behaviour. Furthermore, the prevalence of declining standards and disengagement weighs heavy on teachers. All of that needs to be addressed.
The solution cannot simply be, as the Government has suggested previously, to teach teachers how to be better. Teachers are already excellent—I know that the cabinet secretary believes that—but they are too often going it alone. The number of teachers who are specially qualified and equipped to handle complex needs has dwindled, falling by more than 700 during the past decade. Where additional support staff exist, they are scarce and spread thinly. That figure is masked by poor monitoring and reporting and by the conflated definition of the remits that different support staff have. The stand up for quality education campaign rightly emphasises the need for strategies to tackle those issues head on.
The Scottish Government’s international council of education advisers is right: we must recognise that the time for commissioning reviews is over and the time for action is now. The motion calls for the Government, as a start, to do what it promised and set out a clear timetable to deliver not just on the review recommendations—we continue to wait for it to do that—but on non-contact time, ASN support and free breakfasts. In short, the motion is a call to action. It is a rallying cry for a concerted effort to deliver high and rising standards of education in Scotland, with classrooms where everyone feels safe and is safe and where all pupils, regardless of their backgrounds, can learn.
The challenges are formidable, but so, too, is our resolve. Let us set aside political differences and unite in the pursuit of a brighter future for our children. The time for reviews is over. The time for action is now.
I move,
That the Parliament acknowledges the recent Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) results, and the conclusions that educational standards in Scotland are declining; considers that there are a number of contributing factors that have led to the current difficulties in Scotland’s classrooms; notes the Educational Institute of Scotland’s (EIS) Stand Up for Quality Education campaign, which sets out recommendations on teacher workloads, resourcing for pupils with additional support needs (ASN) and addressing violent and disruptive behaviour in classrooms as key steps to improving the experience of pupils and teachers; agrees with the Scottish Government’s International Council of Education Advisers that “the time for commissioning reviews is now over”, and calls on the Scottish Government to set out a timetable for when it will deliver on its promises in education, including addressing the continued use of temporary teacher contracts, improving workloads by increasing non-contact time for teachers, addressing the gaps in teacher provision in geographical and subject areas, delivering structural reforms, including to the SQA and Education Scotland, and meeting its commitment to offer free breakfasts in primary and special schools.
15:02
The Labour motion refers to the programme for international student assessment results, teacher workload, additional support needs, challenging behaviour, workforce challenges, structural reform and free school meals. I have no aspiration to compose Opposition motions, but I must say that the idea that we will be able to fully debate all those topics in a truncated Opposition debate this afternoon is simply not credible.
There was an opportunity to have a genuine debate on education in the national debating chamber this afternoon, but I fear that what we will hear instead will create a highly predictable political rammy, given the language that is used in the motion. In sincerity, I have to ask who that will serve. It will not serve Scotland’s children and it will certainly not serve Scotland’s teachers. That is why I will move my amendment, which sets out the facts about Scottish education and which all members should be able to support.
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
I am happy to give way to Ms Duncan-Glancy.
With respect, the motion includes all those things because they are interconnected. For too long, parents, teachers and pupils have seen this Government pick and choose bits of the system, tinker round the edges and deliver little change in education. That is why all those issues are mentioned in my motion.
I am not necessarily sure that I agree with the rationale behind Ms Duncan-Glancy’s thinking. Her motion looks to me a bit like a copy-and-paste job. Nonetheless, I will turn to the task at hand and attempt a dissection of the Labour Party motion.
Scotland’s PISA results were published in December 2023. As I set out in my statement to Parliament then, both the First Minister and I have accepted that the results were not good enough. I have previously outlined a comprehensive plan on how we will improve attainment and achievement by, for example, focusing on curriculum improvement, which I updated the Education, Children and Young People Committee on this morning. Our curriculum improvement cycle will start with maths, led by a maths specialist, with English and literacy being the next subject area to be reviewed.
Although the PISA results are important, they are one data set that should not be considered in isolation. As Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills, I spend much of my time going in and out of our schools, and I am always blown away by the committed teachers and young people. Only last week, proud pupils at St Paul’s Roman Catholic high school in Pollok told me about their journey to achieving gold status in the Scottish Credit and Qualifications Framework’s school ambassador programme. There are many positives in Scotland’s education system, so it is somewhat disappointing that the Labour Party could not bring itself to acknowledge in the motion a single positive achievement by our pupils and teachers.
Another data set that is strangely lacking from the Labour motion is the achievement of curriculum for excellence levels data. The ACEL data that was published last month shows that, for literacy and numeracy, the proportions of primary school children achieving the expected curriculum for excellence levels are at record highs for children from both the most and the least deprived areas of Scotland. I remind members that the ACEL data is predicated on the judgment of the teachers who we trust to teach our children and young people every day.
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for mentioning the ACEL data. Are those the same teachers that we did not trust with the assessments during Covid or with the changes that the Scottish Qualifications Authority demanded be dropped so that we could go back to the old system?
I am not sure that I understand the member’s point in relation to what happened during the pandemic. However, it is important that we look at a broad range of data sets. It is somewhat dispiriting that the Scottish Labour Party motion does not say anything positive about Scottish education. What does that say about the offer from Scottish Labour in relation to its vision for Scottish education? I would like to hear that.
The attainment gap in literacy in primary schools is at the lowest level on record, and we are also seeing the gap reduce in secondary schools. Given those results, I am dispirited that the motion does not mention that data.
I do not shy away from the areas where we face challenges. Indeed, during December, I spent a large amount of my time in the chamber discussing some of those challenges in detail. However, I question why the Labour Party would want to shy away from the genuine positives in our system. It is also strange that we do not hear mention from the Labour Party of last year’s examination results. In the summer of 2023, we had the highest number of passes at national 5 since the qualification was introduced in 2014, and a record number of vocational and technical qualifications were achieved. Advanced higher and higher passes are also above those that were seen before the pandemic.
The Government is doing all that we can within our limited powers—
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
The cabinet secretary is in her last 20 seconds.
—to protect Scotland’s children from the impacts of Westminster austerity. That is why we have invested in the Scottish child payment, lifting an estimated 90,000 children out of poverty this year. It is why we are investing in the most generous free school meals provision of any nation in the United Kingdom. The 2024-25 budget also commits to further roll-out in relation to the Scottish childcare element of that.
Presiding Officer, I am conscious of time, but there is a lot to be positive about in Scottish education. We have record attainment levels in primary schools, a record low attainment gap in literacy in primary schools, exam passes at above pre-pandemic levels, and the highest investment per pupil and the lowest pupil teacher ratio in the UK.
Cabinet secretary, you need to conclude.
I have been clear in acknowledging the challenges, but I am asking once again for all members to engage constructively in the debate, because it is only by working together—
Thank you, cabinet secretary.
I move amendment S6M-11875.2, to leave out from “and the conclusions” to end and insert:
“which highlight areas for improvement in Scottish education, particularly in mathematics; understands that the Scottish Government is taking forward a planned and systematic curriculum improvement cycle to enhance standards, which will focus initially on maths; welcomes the recent publication of the 2022-23 Achievement of Curriculum for Excellence Levels (ACEL), which it recognises is the most comprehensive and up-to-date national data set on attainment and which shows record levels of attainment across primary school level and improvements in secondary school level; agrees that these results by Scotland’s pupils, teachers and school staff deserve commendation; notes that Scotland has the highest investment per pupil and lowest pupil/teacher ratio in the UK, and that, in addition to a record £830 million spend on additional support for learning (ASL), work is underway to update the Additional Support for Learning Action Plan and deliver a range of measures to improve the experiences and outcomes of pupils with additional needs; welcomes that Scotland has the most comprehensive free school meal offering of any nation in the UK, which will be further extended by investment in the 2024-25 Budget, and further welcomes the sector-wide agreement on the need for a holistic package of education reforms, which it agrees should be taken forward in partnership with Scotland’s teachers and young people.”
We have no time in hand to speak of, so I invite members to stick to the time that they have agreed to. Members have actually agreed to their speaking slots, and I really invite them to stick to those.
15:08
This is an incredibly important debate, because I think that we would all agree that education is the key brief in sorting out the myriad of issues that Scotland faces after 16 years of Scottish National Party Government. However, I have a mere four minutes to set out the Scottish Conservatives’ proposition as, yet again, it is left to the Opposition parties to use our debating time to demand that education be on the agenda.
Despite the Opposition having significantly fewer opportunities; despite the endemic violence in our schools, which the Scottish Conservatives forced a debate on last summer; despite the PISA figures from last year showing sliding standards, which the Scottish Conservatives also forced a debate on; and despite plummeting teacher numbers and morale due to a lack of resources, the Opposition has called more debates on education than the Scottish Government has since the current cabinet secretary took office. The Government has called one such debate in that time, yet it dares to criticise Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing this debate to the chamber. Perhaps that tells Parliament all that it needs to know about where the Government’s priorities lie.
I welcome Labour’s motion. It is right to highlight the appalling statistics that the Government has presided over, including—to go into more detail—the PISA results, which show that Scotland’s maths, reading and science scores are plummeting, sometimes to record lows. My research has revealed that more than 11,000 teachers and support staff are stuck on temporary contracts, while more than 6,000 teachers and school staff were signed off with stress or poor mental health during the past academic year. There is the fact that, last year, 600 pupils had zero attendance at school, with one in eight, on average, absent on any day—and the Scottish Government does not even collate data on who they are or why they are away. There is also the failure, as we heard, to deliver free breakfasts to primary and special school children, as the Government promised.
I could add other areas where the Scottish Government is falling behind, such as the fact that more than 1,000 Scottish schools lack life-saving defibrillators, or that rural schools are twice as likely to be in a poor condition than urban schools. Of course, there is the abject failure to tackle violence in schools, whether against teachers or other pupils, despite the important briefing that we received from Zero Tolerance concerning how rife violence against women and girls and misogyny are in Scottish schools.
Into that, however, the cabinet secretary submits an amendment that deletes all the substantive points that are raised by the Labour motion. Instead of acknowledging the issues and saying, “Let’s work together to the betterment of Scotland and its people,” the Government prefers to ignore the reality and blames everyone and anyone but itself.
As my time is limited, I will cut to the chase. My amendment seeks to recognise the issues that the Labour motion, which we will vote for, raises, but it also seeks to help the Government with solutions. Last April, the Scottish Conservatives proposed a new deal for teachers, which set out eight priorities to help our teachers. Those include more powers to headteachers and budgetary autonomy, cutting red tape and unnecessary bureaucracy, reforming teachers’ pay and contracts, and introducing life skills as a core part of the curriculum. Crucially, we also note the EIS’s stand up for quality education campaign, and we echo in our new deal its calls for smaller class sizes, less contact time and proper resourcing for ASN and schools more generally.
We all want what is best for Scottish education. We want to support our teachers, school staff and pupils in their efforts to be the best that they can be, to deliver a positive future for themselves and others, and to help Scotland’s economic and social recovery from the past 16 years of the SNP Government. Therefore, at decision time tonight, let us put the politics aside and do what is right for Scottish education. Let us vote for the Labour motion to acknowledge the issues, and then start to move forward with the constructive solutions proposed by Pam Duncan-Glancy, the EIS and the Scottish Conservatives by voting for the amendment in my name, which I hereby move.
I move amendment S6M-11875.1, to insert at end:
“; supports the principles of the Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party’s New Deal for Teachers, and calls on the Scottish Government to reduce contact time and class sizes and end the culture of temporary contracts.”
15:12
I hope that it will be a constructive and reasonable Willie Rennie who makes this contribution.
Let us see.
It might not last, but.
Actually, I have some serious issues to raise, some of which we raised this morning in the Education, Children and Young People Committee, and I want to extract a little from that.
We are eight years into a 10-year SNP education reform programme. The programme was a response to what was seen as a crisis at the time, which was about international performance and the poverty-related attainment gap. However, I think that the education secretary knows that very little has changed since then and that, in many cases, it has got worse. The latest PISA study shows that we have slipped further on international performance, and the poverty-related attainment gap is, bluntly, stuck although it was supposed to have been closed in just two years. I know that there is debate about whether it was to be substantially closed or closed completely, but we have not really made much progress in that time.
I accept that a lot has happened. The pandemic has had a significant impact, but young people today do not want excuses; they just want the decent education that they were promised, and they are not seeing that. Pam Duncan-Glancy is right with the list of problems that she has identified in relation to temporary teachers, additional support for learning, class contact time and behaviour. I will not rehearse all those issues. However, the evidence is that the education reforms that were set out in year 1 of the 10-year programme just have not worked. I believe that that is simply because the Government did not really know at that time what the cause of the decline was. It did not really understand what the problems were.
I make no apology for making a speech that focuses on what I think the problems are, because our job in this place is to try to make things better. Of course, I will celebrate the work that is done in schools and by teachers, but our job is to make things better, so let us focus on the things that we need to improve.
This morning, in the Education, Children and Young People Committee, I asked the cabinet secretary about the issue. She could come up with only one thing that was wrong with Scottish education, which was the transition from the broad general education into the senior phase. That is important, but we cannot really claim that that is the reason why we have had such poor poverty-related attainment gap and PISA figures over the time of the Government’s reform programme, whether they have gone up or down relative to the figures in other countries. We cannot really believe that that is the root cause, especially when PISA is for 15-year-olds, many of whom have not gone through the transition from the BGE to the senior phase.
When I asked Shirley-Anne Somerville, the cabinet secretary’s predecessor, what she thought the problem was, she cited the lack of regional improvement collaboratives. They were scrapped almost before they were established, so I do not think that we can say that they were the reason. We do not have a substitute explanation for what has gone wrong. As a result, we have had a rag-tag bunch of reforms that have little focus and little cohesion. I will make a few suggestions as to what the problem is.
The role of knowledge is important, and there was a dilution of knowledge and concepts even before curriculum for excellence accelerated it.
The systems of accountability within Education Scotland have also been weak. The agency does not have the heft to effectively challenge local and central Government to drive improvement. It did not even pick up on the decline in performance in the PISA figures and the poverty-related attainment gap.
Another factor is the lack of support for classroom materials. Curriculum for excellence turned teacher empowerment into teacher isolation. Teachers were left to create classroom content from woolly principles that were difficult to decipher.
There is also the issue of resources, which many others have talked about, as well as the BGE senior phase transition.
That is my analysis of what has gone wrong with Scottish education. The Government needs to be able simply to set out what the problems are, even if it does not agree with me. If it cannot do that, it cannot fix them and we will end up with an incoherent set of random changes.
We have a debate coming up soon in which we will be able to explore what the solutions are. I will make an equally constructive contribution to that. However, we need to get a focus on what the problems are before we move forward.
We move to the open debate.
15:17
I thank my colleague Pam Duncan-Glancy for bringing the motion to the chamber on behalf of Scottish Labour. She was right to begin by highlighting the PISA statistics. The scores for maths and science are at an all-time low, reading scores are at their joint lowest level and Scottish pupils are now a full year behind their English counterparts in maths.
The cabinet secretary has rightly acknowledged—as has the First Minister—the challenge that those statistics present for this country. As other members have highlighted, they are central to any chance of recovery in our economy, social infrastructure and communities across Scotland.
There are clearly questions of resourcing. We have already discussed issues around the budget settlement and the challenges that will emerge from that relating to local government finance, which flows through into our schools, and the cuts that have been made to university places and to college provision across Scotland, none of which will serve our country well in years to come. However, I will focus on the issue that Willie Rennie just highlighted: the programme of reform that the Government was supposed to follow.
Those reforms have variously been botched or have stalled and, to be frank, are now non-existent. It emerged this morning that international expert Dr Naomi Stanford, whom the SNP Government asked to help implement the recommendations of the Muir report, resigned in despair at the glacial pace of change under the Government. She had asked for some significant and substantial changes that would justify her continued involvement with the Government’s work. No evidence of such changes was forthcoming, and she removed herself from the process. That was a year ago. We are a year further on but have seen no further progress.
All of that speaks to a reform agenda that has ground to a halt. We must have great sympathy for people such as Ken Muir, who put in a huge amount of work, and the many people around the country who were asked questions and gave their experiences of the education system over a long period. That was at the behest of this Government. They were told that their opinions would count and that they would result in changes—and they have resulted in nothing. Whether through Government incompetence or intransigence, there are real consequences of that lack of reform, which we see in the PISA figures.
The evidence from our teachers is also clear. Member surveys through the EIS revealed that 71 per cent of teachers are unhappy with their workload, which is, crucially, highlighted in our motion today. We must do the best that we can to improve the situation that our teachers find themselves in.
I will take a moment to highlight a situation that I have raised with the cabinet secretary before: the lack of a primary school in my constituency. Back in 2015, in the Western Gateway area of Dundee, home owners were promised a school by the SNP council and they were paying an extra £5,000 per house on a roof tax to help pay for it. Last year, SNP councillors failed to secure funding from the Government to pay for it. In response, I have had warm words from the cabinet secretary and from the First Minister in November; however, frankly, those have amounted to nothing.
More than 130 people attended a community meeting in Dundee in December, at which SNP councillors were completely unable to provide any assurances about the delivery of that school. Residents are outraged that this saga is now dragging on into a ninth year. When will the school ever be built? When can the people who live in my constituency get the school that they were promised and that they have paid for?
Mr Marra, you need to conclude.
The solution that is coming forward from this Government will result in all the money that they have paid being lost.
I call Kate Forbes, who joins us remotely.
15:21
Forgive me for not being present, although it might be timely to spare a thought for the many young Highland pupils who are off school today due to the snow and ice.
I will start my remarks with an observation that I think we can all agree with: there is probably no service as critical as education. When it comes to our duties to the public, we have an enormous weight on our shoulders to ensure that our young people, who are growing up through the school system right now, get the education system that they need to prepare them for the future.
I agree with Pam Duncan-Glancy that it is time for action, not debate, but that is precisely what the Scottish Government is doing, with Jenny Gilruth’s leadership on education making clear what is not working right now and the solutions to resolve it. All of Labour’s asks in the motion are difficult to argue with, but they are also all captured in the comprehensive plan that the cabinet secretary set out in December.
One of my biggest hopes for the debates that we have on education is that we move away from inane discussions about inputs and start talking about success as measured in outcomes, skills, knowledge and the ability to thrive. Education Scotland says that it aims to
“equip young people with knowledge, confidence and skills, giving them a competitive edge in a global job market.”
That is precisely why PISA is so important—because it is a global perspective. PISA matters because international comparisons matter. As I said in a previous debate, they probably matter more than comparisons with previous so-called golden ages, which I do not think actually existed.
In December, the cabinet secretary accepted unequivocally that the Government wants to disrupt the trajectory, whether based on attendance, behaviour or PISA figures. She stated that the Government has high ambitions, that being average is not good enough and that we need to pursue excellence. She also made some points in that statement that remain more relevant than ever. She agreed that knee-jerk political responses are not going to help our young people, that we are at an educational juncture, and that we need substantive responses. In the brief time that I have left, I will talk about what that requires.
The first thing is to ensure that our young people are able to read, write and count at a level that is comparable to that of their international peers. To do that, the cabinet secretary has previously promised to improve our curriculum in a planned and systematic way, so that it is relevant and forward looking, with high-quality teaching and learning. She set out the need to focus on maths education and make it a primary area for improvement—it was to be the first area to be improved. That would involve maths specialists, with a full-scale update to the maths curriculum beginning this year, which would then be tested with teachers next year. It would be accompanied by a thematic inspection of literacy and English, to ensure that the English curriculum is meeting those standards.
It is worth observing that we need to ensure that the gaps between Scotland and England and between Scotland and the rest of the world are closed when it comes to the best 10 per cent of pupils, so that we push our brightest as hard as possible.
Secondly, all of that will be in vain without ensuring that we deal with a poverty-related attainment gap—
Ms Forbes, you need to bring your remarks to a close, please.
I will close there.
15:26
The cabinet secretary talked about the number of issues that are in the Labour motion. I know that she is busy talking just now, but I suggest to her that we use Government time. Why does the Government not bring forward some of these debates in its time so that we can discuss what I think is the most important issue in Scotland—the failings in our education system and the pressure on teachers, pupils and all staff in our schools?
The cabinet secretary said that she has previously set out a comprehensive plan, but I do not believe that it was a comprehensive plan. If I remember correctly, point 1 of that plan was to come up with a plan.
The cabinet secretary has also talked about the commitment to teachers and pupils and said that she has met many teachers. I think that I have said before that I met a lot of teachers during the teachers’ industrial action dispute, when I went on picket lines because I believed that teachers needed a better deal. I have to say that nothing prepared me for the discussions that I had with them about the kind of issues and problems in schools that put massive pressure on them. Teachers are leaving the profession in droves and their sickness levels from stress are going up and up because we are not tackling those issues.
I do not doubt for a second the cabinet secretary’s sincerity when she called for the three emergency summits to talk about the issues and what we can do about them. The problem for the cabinet secretary is that she does not control the budget. We need more resources going into our primary and secondary schools, and, as Pam Duncan-Glancy says, we particularly need to look at additional support needs.
A month or so ago, I met a group of parents, all of whom have children with additional support needs. They were very critical. They pointed out that their children were being failed when they were put into mainstream schooling and the additional support teachers were not there to support them. Not only are those parents’ children not being supported but, because teachers are struggling to support them, they are not able to support the rest of the children in the class. The point that the parents made to me was that the Government’s policies mean that we are not getting it right for many children, never mind getting it right for every child.
Kate Forbes spoke about kids being able to read, write and count. Numerous secondary school teachers have told me that cohorts of kids are coming up from primary school who are not equipped with the basic numeracy and literacy skills to proceed into the secondary education system. They are doomed to failure as they come from primary school into secondary school. That must be addressed.
The cabinet secretary has to recognise that we need to put in more resources for additional support needs so that every child is given the right chance and we can truly look up.
Finally, mention has been made of the Scottish child payment. The child payment is great—it is tackling poverty—but we need to tackle the root causes of poverty. The best tools that we have for doing that are the education, training and skills that will equip children for the future. That is where our focus must be. We need more resources, and I hope that the cabinet secretary will bring forward more debates in Government time so that we can spend more time on the issue.
15:30
I welcome the chance to speak in the debate, and I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for securing it. I echo Liam Kerr’s comment that education is the foundation of a successful Scotland, which Alex Rowley also echoed.
At this morning’s meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, the cabinet secretary said that she accepted that it will be a challenge to get it right for Scotland’s teachers and that, in last year’s pay negotiations, there was not enough action on teachers’ working conditions. We know that reduced contact time, pupils’ behaviour and violence in the classroom are all issues that need to be dealt with and which impact on teachers’ working conditions.
Arguably, the most pressing issue is the need to address the deterioration in pupils’ behaviour since the pandemic, which has been raised over and over by teachers and parents. Violent and disruptive behaviour in our classrooms has been getting worse.
Back in June last year, the committee held a round-table discussion with parent groups, teachers, educational psychologists and children’s right organisations. As Alex Rowley mentioned, the cabinet secretary hosted summits in June, August and November of last year, but, to be frank, I do not have a sense that any substantive recommendations, actions or changes have come from those summits.
The Scottish Government’s “Behaviour in Scottish Schools 2023” report found that levels of disruption have increased across all surveyed categories. Low-level disruptive behaviour, disengagement and serious disruptive behaviours have all increased since 2016. That has been accompanied by a decline in most reported positive behaviours. Instances of verbal abuse and physical aggression towards pupils and staff have risen in number.
The proportion of secondary school support staff who have experienced violence between pupils has risen from less than one in five to almost one in two. Most teachers and school staff are witnessing and being subjected to considerable instances of negative behaviour. The Government’s report found that two thirds of staff had encountered general verbal abuse, almost three in five had encountered physical aggression and more than two in five had experienced physical violence between pupils in the classroom in the past week. I know that I would not want to work in such conditions. Why are we subjecting our teachers to that?
The report stated:
“In secondary schools, the behaviour most commonly reported as having the greatest negative impact was pupils using/looking at mobile phones or tablets when they should not. More than half of secondary school staff ... said this was one of the three behaviours that had the greatest negative impact”.
Therefore, it will come as no surprise to members that I again want to discuss that issue. Of course, most pupils are well behaved, but all suffer from the consequences of disruption in their classrooms and are vulnerable to distraction. Experts recognise the addictive nature of constant access to social media. I am sure that many of us could look in the mirror in that respect.
Mobile phones are not the only cause of the growing school discipline problems—the report also cites the rising incidence of drug and alcohol consumption—but, if mobile phones are a significant contributor to those problems, their removal must surely be part of the solution. Banning mobile phones from schools will not solve the deep-rooted problems that exist, but it will help.
Across the country, we also face the problem of “ghost pupils”, which I want to briefly discuss. Hundreds of pupils in Scotland failed to attend a single day of school last year. The number of those under 16 who recorded zero attendance rose to a record high of more than 600, which included more than 300 primary 1 to 7 children. While the reasons for those absences vary, one senior teaching union official said that they included rising violence in classrooms and cuts to education budgets.
Those startling numbers come in the wake of last month’s analysis by the programme for international student assessment, which reported a long-term—
Will the member take an intervention?
The member is about to conclude; she is over her time.
Given the pressure on my final statement, I will conclude my remarks there. It is important that we address violence in the classroom.
15:34
I welcome the opportunity to speak in today’s debate, having spoken in the previous debate on education in the chamber just last month, and as a member of the Education, Children and Young People Committee. During the debate in December, I, along with other members, highlighted the fact that the latest PISA report came on the back of the Covid-19 pandemic, which saw unprecedented disruption across society, including to the provision of education.
Back then, I was pressed to answer the question whether I would
“at least accept that Scottish performance in PISA during the Covid years dropped remarkably quicker than that of the rest of the United Kingdom, under the same circumstances?”—[Official Report, 13 December 2023; c 54.]
I reiterate, for anyone who is looking to draw a direct comparison between Scotland’s and England’s PISA results and link educational standards with compliance with OECD standards, that the UK Government’s report found that England did not meet the PISA standards of reporting in its sampling. The sample was found to be biased because more higher-achieving pupils participated than lower-achieving pupils. Ultimately, the OECD estimated that that likely resulted in an upward bias in the reported results, of approximately seven or eight points.
Those are important points to be aware of when we speak today, but I do not say them to lessen the challenges that are faced, and I welcome today’s debate.
The Labour Party’s motion focuses, quite rightly, on the need to identify a potential timeframe for education reform. The Government amendment seeks to address that issue by stating that it
“welcomes the sector-wide agreement on the need for a holistic package of education reforms, which it agrees should be taken forward in partnership with Scotland’s teachers and young people.”
I believe that that is a reasonable approach to take. It is essential that we consult those at the heart of the system, which means asking those who use, shape and deliver our education system to allow their voices to be heard—namely, the voices of young people, parents, carers and, crucially, teachers. I encourage all those groups to participate in the consultation, to ensure that their voices are heard. I know that the education committee, in scrutinising any proposals, will ensure that they are.
On the specific issues of potential teacher conditions, as highlighted in today’s motion, I was reassured by the cabinet secretary’s comments when she gave evidence to the Education, Children and Young People Committee this morning. In response to questioning in which she was pressed on a specific timetable for reform, the cabinet secretary indicated that the Government is expecting a commissioned report to be published later this month. I believe that that will provide much-needed clarity on both the type of reform that is envisaged and the timetable for achieving such reform, and I look forward to scrutinising the report.
I understand the heartfelt commitment to seeking reforms and delivering an education system that works for all, and I welcome it. I also welcome the Scottish Government’s commitment to identify and implement reforms that will, I hope, advance those aims. I believe that the Government’s amendment, which sets out the steps that it has taken and is taking, coupled with assurances from the cabinet secretary regarding potential timetables, means that we are moving in the right direction. I encourage members to support the Government amendment.
15:38
I thank the Labour Party for keeping the SNP-Green Government’s mismanagement of the Scottish education system at the forefront of debate in the chamber. Today’s debate follows on from the Scottish Conservatives’ debate last month on the very same topic.
Once again, we have obfuscation, diversion and increasing attempts to lay the blame elsewhere—anything but accept that the responsibility for outcomes over the tenure of what was the SNP Government and is now the SNP-Green Government lies squarely with it. After all, education is totally devolved to Scotland, as is health. Both portfolios are directly linked, as I will discuss later.
As I highlighted in my discussion with my friend Martin Whitfield during the Conservative education debate last month, education is the cornerstone of every portfolio, although cross-portfolio issues are most definitely not the fault of our educators. Solutions to just about every challenge that our country faces are rooted in a flourishing education system that gives pupils every opportunity to develop their talents and be all that they can be.
When the Government gets education wrong, we see that reflected in all other portfolios—hence Scotland’s continuing poor health record, which is the worst in Europe; the level of drug and alcohol deaths, which is the worst in Europe; and obesity levels, which are the highest in Europe. Levels of heart disease, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, musculoskeletal and arthritis conditions, and mental ill health, especially in our schools, are at epidemic levels.
We need to tackle poor physical and mental health, poor behaviour, poor attainment and poor nutrition in our schools. The two topics for debate this afternoon—health and education—are intrinsically linked, which in turn links directly to the fact that Scotland’s economy is underperforming that of the rest of the United Kingdom. Our poor health record is a significant drag on the economy—a fact that the Scottish Government cannot seem to get its collective head round.
The solution is to create a different teaching and learning environment that empowers, supports and frees teachers to do the job that they are trained for and are passionate about—the job that enthuses our school pupils and aligns them to the huge opportunities that should be available to them as we transition towards a greener economy. It is about developing our youth to be the confident, resilient, aspirational risk takers and innovators that Scotland has such a world reputation for.
There has been a marked decline in physical activity, music, art, drama and many of the other extracurricular activities that our school pupils enjoy. Those activities draw in active minds, give an outlet for enthusiasm, deliver aspiration and self-discipline and provide an appreciation for application. They help to create an environment where learning is varied and exciting.
Weaving those activities into the daily life of school pupils, along with extolling the exciting world that a transition to a greener economy should bring, is an education system that we should all be able to get behind. Unfortunately, that is lost on the cabinet secretary and her Government, who leave our education system mired in bureaucracy and red tape.
The Parliament should be able to come together on such an important issue as education, but the SNP amendment tries to ignore the real issues with its education policies. The Scottish Government’s response to the PISA results highlights that it is unable to respond to its failures in education and that it is managing its decline, along with many other portfolios. Curriculum for excellence was voted in by members from across the chamber, but the Scottish Government has once again failed in its implementation. When will it recognise that only outcomes matter? I will not hold my breath.
15:42
It is fair to lay out challenges in a system as important as the education system, and it is fair to challenge Governments. It is also fair to point out that the picture could not be more different between Scotland and the rest of the UK when it comes to investing in education. Scotland has introduced and funded groundbreaking policy to support and protect our young people from Westminster’s ruinous financial policies of austerity and public sector funding cuts. [Interruption.] I hear Mr Whittle shouting “outcomes” from a sedentary position. An outcome of austerity is a child who is hungry and unable to concentrate in school or who is uncomfortable walking to school in the rain because they do not have a coat to wear. That is an outcome of austerity. [Interruption.]
Mr Whittle, not from a sedentary position.
The Opposition motion focuses on the EIS’s stand up for quality education campaign. It is about three key areas—workload, ASN and pupil behaviour—which are all very important topics.
I will focus my remarks on behaviour, and specifically on gender inequality and violence against women and girls in Scottish schools. Recently, the Education, Children and Young People Committee undertook a very short but valuable piece of work on the equally safe strategy and the experiences of young women and girls in education. I am grateful to all who participated, and I thank them. The first-hand testimony and generous sharing of their experiences and ideas was very helpful. It is regrettable that the committee does not have the capacity at present to prioritise further work in that area.
However, the briefing from Zero Tolerance Scotland is a useful prompt in reminding us that caring about tackling such issues is not just for white ribbon day and the 16 days of action but for all year round. I thank Zero Tolerance Scotland and will share some of the facts from its briefing with the chamber. I hope that colleagues will recognise that, in looking to address poor behaviour in schools, we need to be cognisant of gender inequality. Addressing gender inequality in education will tackle issues with violence, bullying, attendance and attainment.
Zero Tolerance Scotland has pointed out that
“Almost 70% of pupils in Scotland experienced sexual harassment in the 3 months prior to being asked ... 34% experienced unwanted sexual touching ... Six times as many women have experienced serious sexual assault compared to men ... 55% of survivors experienced their first sexual assault between ages 16 and 20 ... Around 1 in 5 girls and young women don’t feel safe in school ... Girls of colour are less likely than white girls to feel safe at school.”
Teachers also experienced that violence, with one in four female secondary school teachers reporting that they were sexually harassed or abused during the previous 12 months.
The report also found that
“Boys’ violence makes girls feel unsafe and affects their school attendance and learning”
and
“Fear of violence impacts girls’ ability to participate fully in education. Fear of sexual harassment prevents a quarter of girls from speaking out in class.”
Horrifically, the report shares that
“Fear of being raped, followed home and/or kidnapped affects girls’ sleep, concentration and ability to participate fully in learning.”
and that
“Girls living in deprived areas are more likely to say that fear of sexual harassment holds them back.”
I see that I am running out of time, so I cannot share much more of the girls’ and young women’s testimony. However, I support Zero Tolerance Scotland in its ask that the Scottish Government should recognise and prioritise violence against women and girls in all discussions about behaviour and violence in schools.
15:46
I am pleased to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives. I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy, Martin Whitfield and Labour for allowing us the opportunity to discuss Scottish education.
We can all agree with the Scottish Government’s international council for education advisers, but the irony is not lost on me that, when a reviewing body states that the time for commissioning reviews is now over, it certainly focuses the issue. I believe that education, childcare, wraparound care and all forms of lifelong learning need to be thoroughly debated. It is disappointing to me that Opposition parties have so often had to use their allocated time to ensure that that is done. I thank Bill Kidd for highlighting that he spoke in the previous debate, which was the Scottish Conservatives’ debate on PISA. As many have done during today’s debate, I highlight to the Government that we would appreciate a good chance to debate it during Government time.
This morning, during the meeting of the Education, Children and Young People Committee, I heard our colleague Liam Kerr referencing the Conservatives’ new deal for teachers. Is that publicly available or on the Conservatives’ website? Perhaps the member could get a copy to me.
I have just been informed that the member will be sent a copy—so there you go.
I will take a few moments to highlight some of the contributions that have come up today. Behaviour in the classroom is important to highlight; Ruth Maguire and Sue Webber have both raised that issue. It is important that we accept that there is a behaviour problem in our classrooms and that we are expecting our teachers to go above and beyond to cope with that. It is also right that Ruth Maguire highlighted concerns regarding gender-based violence towards women and girls. It is harrowing to hear that one in four female secondary school teachers are affected by that.
It would be wrong of me to go past this point without also highlighting that Sue Webber quite rightly mentioned concerns about mobile phone use in classrooms and how distracting that can be. Willie Rennie and Michael Marra mentioned that we are eight years into 10 years of reform. It is worrying that we are so far into that process, but we do not have reform in classrooms to back it up. Teaching conditions are the crux of the matter; I will talk about that a little later, but it is important to say that—as highlighted by Pam Duncan-Glancy, Liam Kerr and Alex Rowley—teacher conditions in our classrooms are not acceptable.
I also want to highlight that breakfast and lunch provision is paramount. It has been promised. Pam Duncan-Glancy and Liam Kerr brought it up, and I will do so as well. It is important that our pupils get access to proper nourishment so that they can achieve all that they are able to in the classroom.
I will make a final point. I accept that the PISA results matter, as Kate Forbes highlighted. We are trying to build a nation of students who can go on to achieve in a global job market, so it is important that we look at what is happening across the world and ensure that our young people are able to achieve globally.
The main content of the motion and the Scottish Conservative amendment highlight the role of our teachers and the need for action when it comes to the work that is expected of them and the lack of follow-through on the promises that the Scottish Government has made. As has been stated, at our conference last year, the Scottish Conservatives announced our new deal for teachers, which will include providing headteachers with more powers over their schools, more budgetary autonomy, with recruitment of their staff—
Ms McCall, you need to conclude.
We can pass round information on our new deal for teachers for anyone who wants to look at it.
15:51
I had forgotten that it is a snow day in Ms Forbes’s constituency and in other parts of the country. It is always the most exciting and perhaps the most stressful time of the year for teachers when it starts to snow while they are delivering a lesson, so my thoughts are with my former colleagues at this time.
I agree with Pam Duncan-Glancy on the power of education to elevate and open doors. Willie Rennie described today’s motion as a “list of problems”, so let me attempt to respond to some of the points that have been made in a constructive way. Liam Kerr assured us that the Conservatives were keen to engage in that way, although I am not necessarily sure that Mr Whittle received that memo.
Pam Duncan-Glancy spoke about the EIS’s campaign to stand up for education. I look forward to engaging with my former trade union on the substantive issues that have been highlighted by the campaign.
Ms Duncan-Glancy and a number of other members specifically talked about support for pupils with additional support needs. It is important to say that the Government has invested record levels—£830 million in 2021-22 alone—in support of those with additional support needs. We also provide additional investment of £15 million a year to support local authorities to employ support assistants.
I accept the challenge relating to the increase in the number of pupils with additional support needs in our classrooms. Figures that were published at the end of last year show that that number has increased again. The increase has been driven, in part, by changes to measurements some years ago. Through the additional support for learning action plan that we are working on with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, we have identified a number of actions, and I am keen to update members on those in the coming weeks.
As we have heard from other members, there will be a debate on education in Government time. I intend to use that to respond fully to some of the proposals relating to the Hayward review.
As we heard from Ms Forbes, I set out a plan at the end of last term to reverse some of the concerning patterns that we have seen in our schools following Covid. We must not suggest that Covid did not disrupt education—it did, and it continues to have an impact. The latest edition of the PISA results was referred to by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development as the Covid edition.
Mr Marra asked a specific question about Western Gateway primary school in his region. We have exchanged correspondence on the issue, so he will know that the Government had to take some really difficult decisions as part of the third round of funding for the learning estate investment programme. However, as a result of investment from the Government, the quality of Scotland’s school estate has improved. In 2007, about 60 per cent of schools were in good or satisfactory condition, and that figure is now more than 90 per cent. However, I accept that a number of schools are not yet there. Local authorities have statutory responsibility for schools, but I have committed to ensuring that the Scottish Futures Trust works with COSLA and the Scottish Government to identify action that we can take.
The central risk is that, if the school has not begun to be built by 2025, all the money that has been committed by residents—£2.5 million to date—will be lost. It is imperative that the Government drives that pace, if it can, to ensure that we make use of that money and that there is less of an impact on the public purse. I implore the cabinet secretary to take on board that urgency.
I hear what Mr Marra has said about the urgency. I encourage him to engage with Dundee City Council on the matter. I point out that the council was awarded nearly £50 million for priority projects through the schools for the future programme. We have prioritised local authorities that did not receive funding from the learning estate investment programme, but I accept the challenge here.
The challenge that I face, which I talked to the Education, Children and Young People Committee about this morning, is where in the education and skills budget or the Scottish Government’s budget that additionality should come from. As we move forward with stage 1 of the budget, I would be more than happy to hear any ideas from Mr Marra about where that might be drawn from.
Alex Rowley spoke about resources. This year, the Scottish Government’s education and skills portfolio budget has increased by 4.3 per cent in terms of resource. That is despite there being only a 1 per cent uplift in real terms across the Scottish Government from our UK Government settlement.
It is important to say that we have prioritised education spend. I hope that the Opposition recognises that in relation to the choices that we have had to make.
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
The cabinet secretary is about to conclude her remarks.
My apologies, Deputy Presiding Officer.
I am disappointed that we have not heard about some of the positives about Scotland’s education system in the debate. We have the lowest pupil teacher ratio in the UK and the best-paid teachers in the UK.
Thank you, cabinet secretary.
I accept the challenge, but I am keen to work with the Opposition moving forward.
15:55
It is a pleasure to close this interesting debate.
Before I address some of the contributions, I thank those outside the Parliament who submitted briefings, particularly the General Teaching Council for Scotland, which has not been mentioned. Its independent role as a safeguard and gateway to teachers’ professionalism is truly important. Magic Breakfast has been talked about. I also pay tribute to Ruth Maguire and my colleague Pauline McNeill with regard to the Zero Tolerance Scotland briefing, which makes for salutary reading. Ruth Maguire’s contribution on the reasons why girls cannot go to school was a truly tragic insight into the challenges that girls as well as many other young people face with regard to how they engage with education and our schools.
I was disappointed by the tone of the cabinet secretary’s opening statement. It is the Opposition’s role to hold the Government to account. There have been offers to work with members across the chamber—
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
I will, if it is very short.
I say to Martin Whitfield that the Labour Party’s motion does not recognise a single positive in Scottish education. As a member of the Opposition, he should accept that I am looking to work with the Opposition, but that is rather difficult when there is no recognition of the good work that is happening in Scotland’s schools with our pupils and teachers.
I am very grateful for that contribution. Similarly, I could look to the proposed amendment and ask where the apology is. Where is the recognition? Where is the Scottish Government’s responsibility towards our young people, our parents, our families and our teachers? If we are going to have cross-party understanding, and if we are going to do what the people who watch the Parliament from outside it continually ask us to do, which is to work together, there needs to be a recognition of the challenges. However, there is no recognition of the challenges in the amendment that was moved by the SNP-Green Government.
It is interesting that members sitting behind the cabinet secretary, including Ruth Maguire and Bill Kidd, and Kate Forbes, who contributed remotely, have said that we have quite rightly addressed education’s problems.
There are challenges in our education system. As a number of members have said, acknowledging that is not to turn the fire on our teachers, and certainly not to turn the fire on our families or young people; it is about holding responsible those who have the treasured responsibility of guiding and supporting our young people through their childhood as they transition to adulthood. That is where the responsibility lies. The years of lack and neglect, the years of reports, committees and round tables, and the years of failure to produce a plan that can survive more than a couple of years before it is given up have led us to a position of being in dire straits.
In Edinburgh this morning, I had the great pleasure of meeting groups that work with young people who cannot engage in education because of homelessness and other challenges.
Deputy Presiding Officer, I am conscious of the time.
Those people spoke about the fact that there needs to be a relationship before we can get to the point of being able to understand their challenges and start to make things better.
When the current cabinet secretary came into post, she brought with her one of the most valuable assets, which is a deep and proper understanding of teaching and a real empathy for teachers. I urge her to go back to that, to seek out advice and ideas, and then to come back here and give us a timetable for when we will actually see changes, so that children who are now 16 years of age and entering the final years of their education, even if they cannot benefit from those changes themselves, can perhaps see light at the end of the tunnel for their younger siblings.
We have discussed the challenge of Covid, and we admit that there was a Covid pandemic. That was enormously challenging in our education system, and the young people who lived through that period and who are still at school or further education may carry the harm of Covid long into the future. However, the challenges existed beforehand. We should not deny that, and we should admit that there were problems coming, including way back in 2016, when the PISA results led to the departure from PISA. We are again starting to hear language that indicates that confidence in PISA is perhaps not there.
There is an opportunity here, and there is a feeling across the chamber that assistance will be given, but that requires engagement, rather than just throwing ideas from trench to trench. Some good ideas have been raised by many people today. I urge the cabinet secretary and her colleagues to consider them and to engage.
That concludes the debate on stand up for quality education. Before we move to the next item of business, there will be a short pause to allow front-bench teams to change position should they so wish.
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