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Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Thursday, January 16, 2025


Contents


First Minister’s Question Time


Royal College of Nursing Report

1. Russell Findlay (West Scotland) (Con)

Today, Scotland’s nurses have spoken. A damning report from the Royal College of Nursing lays bare our broken national health service. First-hand accounts from more than 500 Scottish nurses reveal a lack of dignity and privacy for patients who are stuck in corridors and side rooms. They describe scenes of chaos, patient safety being compromised due to a shortage of beds and a dangerous lack of medication and oxygen. It is page after page of shocking and desperate testimony.

One nurse said:

“It is degrading, undignified, and at times unsafe for patients who are already angry due to the long waits, sometimes waiting in”

emergency departments

“for over 35 hours to go to a ward, just to be put in the corridor. The system is broken.”

Does John Swinney agree with Scotland’s nurses that Scotland’s NHS is broken?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

The first thing that I want to do is to apologise to any individual who has had an unsatisfactory experience with the care that they have received and with the congestion in hospitals.

I commend, as I did last week, NHS staff for their unremitting commitment to ensuring that the system is able to deliver as best it can in the face of unprecedented demand. I recounted to the Parliament last week the enormity of the increase in flu cases that have been wrestled with in the NHS over the past few weeks.

The Government is entirely focused on ensuring that we meet the needs of patients and that we support staff in undertaking the essential work that they do, given the enormous increase in demand that we have faced in recent weeks.

Russell Findlay

Although apologies are welcome, as is commending staff, change is required. The report confirms that hospital overcrowding is at dangerous levels, with one nurse saying:

“I work in what is supposed to be a 32 bed ... assessment unit, recently we have had ... between 60-70 patients at any one time.”

We know the root cause of that: it is due to record levels of delayed discharge, which the Scottish National Party Government promised to eradicate 10 years ago.

However, SNP ministers now do not even seem to accept reality. This morning, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care denied that patients were regularly treated in corridors. In response, Colin Poolman of the Royal College of Nursing Scotland disagreed, saying that that has now been “normalised”. Who is right—Scotland’s nurses or the SNP health secretary?

The First Minister

The health secretary and I are fully aware of the prevailing circumstances in our hospital system just now. The health secretary has seen it with his own eyes during the visits that he has undertaken, and I saw it when I spent the evening of 4 January in the emergency department of Edinburgh royal infirmary, where I observed the enormous commitment of staff in the face of unprecedented demand.

I remind the Parliament that the level of flu cases that we have been experiencing and the level of hospital admissions are the highest that they have been since records began in 2010; they are formidably higher than the demand that we faced last winter. There is unprecedented demand in the system, and I commend health service staff for managing through these difficult experiences.

The measures that the Government has put in place to tackle delayed discharge, to ensure that we have better flow navigation in our hospitals and to ensure that same-day treatment services are available are some of the actions that the health secretary has taken to address the situation.

Russell Findlay

The fact that the health secretary has seen it with his own eyes but continues to deny it is absolutely damning. It illustrates a stark disconnect between what SNP politicians think about the NHS and the reality of what nurses are saying.

Here is a reality check. Some nurses are being forced to quit in desperation and disgust. A nurse with 10 years’ service said:

“People are dying as a result of ambulances being held at hospitals”.

Another said:

“It’s disgusting and we are on our knees but nothing seems to be getting done.”

Another said:

“It breaks my heart at the pathetic care that we are able to give.”

The situation cannot continue. It is absolutely heartbreaking. When will the Government bring forward a serious plan to fix Scotland’s NHS?

The First Minister

I assure the Parliament that, despite the enormous increase in flu cases that we have seen, with that figure increasing to the highest level on record, a reduction in the number of flu cases is now prevailing in the NHS.

I also want to assure patients of the steps that the Government has taken to ensure that we have the support in place to address the demand that exists, which, as I said in my earlier answer, comes from the same-day emergency care services, the provision of flow navigation centres, the provision of frailty units in hospitals and the development of the hospital at home system, which has significantly enhanced our ability to care for patients and to ensure that individuals are supported in the right context and in the right circumstances.

Mr Findlay asked me about reforms. Reforms were undertaken in the redesign of urgent care programme in December 2020. The independent evaluation of that programme has demonstrated that the patient experience is that the redesign of urgent care has resulted in shorter waits for many patients, as a consequence of the expansion of emergency care that we have put in place—[Interruption.]

Members.

The First Minister

—and the expansion of NHS 24 services, which was a key recommendation of the redesign of urgent care programme.

What has helped us in this incredibly difficult period has been the fact that members of the public have followed the advice that the Government has issued, which is to secure the right care in the right place. That has reduced the level of demand that is prevalent in some emergency settings and has enabled us to provide the support that individuals require. That is what we have to do to navigate through periods of increased demand, such as the one that we have just experienced.

Russell Findlay

I really do not know where to begin with that answer. To say that what is in the RCN report is to do with the fact that it covers a period in which we faced a flu epidemic, rather than inaction, is absolutely preposterous.

Patients expect and deserve dignity and decency from the NHS, but nurses say that they cannot provide the treatment that is needed. I would like the First Minister to please listen to what nurses are saying. I have read the report, and I encourage him to do so. One nurse describes being

“disgusted and ashamed that this was the best we could offer a 91 year old lady.”

Another describes being “embarrassed and ashamed” at leaving a 100-year-old woman on a trolley in discomfort.

Another said:

“We are putting Scottish Government targets before patients and it needs to stop.”

What does John Swinney have to say to the nurses who are being let down and to the patients who are having to suffer such disgusting and degrading treatment?

The First Minister

I cited the flu rates because they were at their peak during the period in which the RCN survey was undertaken, which put the greatest burden on emergency care in the national health service. The evidence that I have put to the Parliament is directly related to the questions that Mr Findlay has put to me.

I accept and acknowledge the enormity of the pressure on the NHS. I have been completely candid with the Parliament about that over a number of weeks. As a consequence, we have been leading a process of supporting our territorial boards and the Scottish Ambulance Service. I know from the review call that I chaired last night that there has been a significant improvement in the delivery of healthcare in emergency situations as a consequence of the reduction in the number of flu cases that I have mentioned. I am grateful to members of the public for their co-operation in ensuring that they secure the right care in the right place, and I am profoundly grateful to staff for working so hard during an incredibly difficult and demanding period.

Mr Findlay asks what the public can expect of the Government. What the public can expect from me, as First Minister, is my unrelenting focus, working with the health secretary, on ensuring that we deliver the improvements and developments that will ensure that patients get the care that they require and that they are supported in receiving the care that is necessary to address their health circumstances at all times.


Royal College of Nursing Report

2. Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab)

Last week, I raised the case of Robert, a retired policeman from Lanarkshire, who spent five and a half hours on the floor in accident and emergency before being given morphine and a bed. The First Minister apologised but, as usual, he then used hard-working national health service staff as his political shield.

Today, the Royal College of Nursing has published a damning report that lays bare the impact that the crisis has on NHS patients and staff. One nurse said:

“I deliver care in inappropriate settings every single day all day. It deprives the patient of privacy and dignity, it forces us to go against our codes and training.”

That is shameful. Last week, John Swinney apologised to patients, and he has just done that again today. Will he now apologise to the NHS staff that he and his Scottish National Party Government are failing every day?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

One key point that I have tried to stress in all my answers to Parliament on this question is the importance of ensuring that I address as they are the circumstances that we face in our hospital system. That is one reason why I went to the emergency department at Edinburgh royal infirmary on 4 January to see with my own eyes the pressure that was being recounted to me by health service leaders over a number of weeks when I was engaged in trying to address the situation.

I think that, throughout the United Kingdom, ministers all accept the pressures that are on the national health service because of winter circumstances. I have recounted to Parliament the enormous increase in flu cases and I will put those numbers on the parliamentary record. Hospital admissions almost doubled from 708 in the week ending 15 December to 1,382 in the week ending 22 December, and they increased further to 1,596 in the week ending 29 December, which is when the RCN survey was undertaken.

I acknowledge the reality of the pressures—the intense pressures—on the national health service. We have increased staff and consultant numbers and have expanded the capacity of NHS 24, as a review of urgent care called on us to do back in 2020. The Government will continue taking all the necessary steps to ensure that our staff are as well supported as they can be in dealing with the intense pressures that prevail within the national health service in winter.

Anas Sarwar

John Swinney wants to pretend that we have only a winter crisis in the NHS; the reality is that we have a permanent crisis in the NHS on John Swinney’s watch.

The RCN report details the human cost of John Swinney and Neil Gray’s incompetence. Nurses are delivering care in overcrowded or unsuitable places such as corridors, cupboards and even car parks every day. Staff are caring for multiple patients in a single corridor, where they are unable to access oxygen, cardiac monitors and other life-saving equipment. Patients are going into cardiac arrest while in corridors, incontinent patients are left with no privacy and almost 90 per cent of nurses say that patient safety is being compromised. Nurses describe flu patients waiting in corridors next to vulnerable patients and having to discuss miscarriages with couples in overcrowded corridors.

One nurse said:

“I worked throughout Covid-19 and although was a horrendous experience this lack of care in the broken system is worse.”

Is that not the deadly reality of the NHS on John Swinney and the SNP’s watch?

The First Minister

No, it is not. What we are doing is focusing, within the resources available to us, on maximising the effectiveness of patient care for individuals.

What has the Government done in recent years? The Government has, for example, increased NHS staffing by 26.6 per cent during the period in which we have been in office. Regarding the central point in Mr Sarwar’s last question, the Government has increased staffing numbers. We have increased consultant numbers, particularly in emergency care, and we have also increased the capacity of NHS 24. We have introduced innovations, such as hospital at home, to ensure that more patients are treated in the circumstances that best meet their needs.

The Government will continue to innovate and reform to address the public’s needs, but there is a harsh reality about the increased demand that we are facing as a consequence of the upsurge in flu cases and the implications of Covid, which has left the population facing more acute health circumstances than pre-Covid. The Government is prioritising the national health service by ensuring that we are investing the largest sum of money ever in it. I look forward to the Government’s budget passing to enable us to secure that investment for the people of this country.

Anas Sarwar

The RCN in Scotland said this morning that this is

“a wake-up call for the Scottish Government”,

but it is clear from John Swinney’s answers that he is asleep at the wheel, which is why we need a change of direction in this country. He denies reality, so will he listen to what Scottish nurses are saying? One said:

“It is demoralising, frustrating and embarrassing. It feels like patients are a number not a patient.”

Another Scottish nurse said:

“It’s degrading and unsafe as these locations are not designed or intended for patient care and offer little or no privacy.”

Another Scottish nurse said:

“I have had to give IV antibiotics on a chair beside the nurses station to someone septic.”

Another Scottish nurse said:

“I am now in the process of leaving the NHS ... it is fraying at the seams and has left me with mental health problems and trauma.”

That is the damning and sad reality of our NHS under the SNP. Is it not a clear sign that John Swinney and this SNP Government cannot fix the mess that they made, and that we need a new direction in our country?

The First Minister

I hear the slogan from Anas Sarwar every week, but I point out to Parliament that there was not a single word of substance to back up his rhetoric about a new direction. The last word that Anas Sarwar used was “change”. He has argued that a Labour Government in London would change the circumstances for people in this country. [Interruption.]

Members, let us hear one another.

The First Minister

A Labour Government did not change the circumstances for the WASPI women—women against state pension inequality—in this country, who have been betrayed by the Labour Party in the United Kingdom. When the Secretary of State for Scotland was in Parliament yesterday, he told us that the people could not cope with the honesty of the Labour Government. I think that, on the basis of the past few months, people in Scotland are waking up to the fundamental dishonesty of the Labour Party, and Mr Sarwar epitomises it.


Climate Action

Presiding Officer—[Interruption.]

Let us hear Lorna Slater.

Lorna Slater

Presiding Officer, 2024 was the hottest year on record. We are seeing the climate break down in front of our eyes in devastating floods and raging wildfires. This is just the start now that planet earth has crossed the threshold of 1.5°C of global heating. The promises that were made in the Paris agreement have proven worthless, and global leaders have failed to protect our planet. Is Scotland’s First Minister prepared to take serious action on land use change; on reducing traffic by introducing road charges and cutting the cost of public transport; and on making homes warmer, greener and cheaper to heat, so that we can get back on track to meet our climate targets?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

I am certainly committed to ensuring that we take action on the climate. I want to make sure that we fulfil the obligations that Parliament has put into statute, and that we take the practical actions to ensure that that can be the case.

The Government has a number of policy measures in place that will assist us in that work, and Parliament knows and understands what they are. Some of them involve investment that is tied up with the Government’s budget, which involves, for example, £300 million for the heat in buildings programme and investment of nearly £200 million in a range of active and sustainable transport measures.

The Government is committed to the policy agenda of taking action on the climate, in addition to the steps that we are taking on renewable energy. We are also taking the practical financial steps to ensure that that programme is in place to support those policy interventions.

Lorna Slater

We have a duty to future generations not to let global heating spiral out of control. Existing oil and gas production must wind down as we transition to renewable energy, and new oil and gas exploration is not compatible with Scotland’s climate commitments.

The last time that the First Minister was asked about Scotland’s energy strategy, he said that the reason for further delay was recent court decisions blocking oil and gas projects on environmental grounds. However, those decisions would worry him only if he intended to support new oil and gas projects in Scotland. Will he confirm the presumption against new oil and gas in Scotland?

The First Minister

The Government has obligations to ensure that all our policy interventions are well evidenced and to take into account all the circumstances that we face. The court cases that I cited are relevant because they fundamentally affect decision making and policy approaches in relation to consent to any oil and gas developments. It is important that the Government takes time to understand all those issues and engage with the UK Government, which is the decision-making body on those questions.

I say to Parliament that the Government is absolutely committed to our agenda on climate action. We have binding statutory targets, and I want Scotland to achieve those targets, because I want us to play our part in protecting the planet. I accept fundamentally the point that Lorna Slater put to me, which is that those issues are in jeopardy because of the temperature of the planet last year. I want to ensure that Scotland plays its part in addressing that.


Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners

4. Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)

To ask the First Minister what assessment the Scottish Government has made of the potential economic impact of Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners’ reported £800 million investment in battery energy storage sites in Scotland. (S6F-03720)

The First Minister (John Swinney)

I welcome investment in the construction of the two largest battery storage systems in Europe, in South Lanarkshire and in Fife. The construction and long-term maintenance of those projects will bring jobs and economic value locally and to wider Scotland. Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners has stated that there will be 150 staff working at Coalburn 1 during peak construction. That investment and show of confidence in Scotland will also contribute indirectly to local employment. It is a landmark announcement for our economic and net zero prospects.

Jackie Dunbar

Given recent reports about energy storage and security, the development of the Coalburn battery energy storage site will be a vital addition to our national energy security mix, as well as a welcome investment in the growth of Scotland’s energy transition infrastructure. It is also essential that the local community benefits from that significant investment. It is unfortunate that the Labour Government in the United Kingdom has failed to keep its promise to bring bills down. Can the First Minister say any more about how the development will boost the region, such as through job creation, including in the renewable supply chain?

The First Minister

It is a significant investment, and it demonstrates Scotland’s openness to attracting international investment as part of our journey to net zero. The battery storage facilities will create local employment. They will also be integral to delivering a sustainable power network for Scotland and will enable us to withstand some of the changes in demand in the power network.

When fully functional, the two sites will provide an incredible 1.5GW of power, which is sufficient to cover the energy needs of more than 4.5 million households for a two-hour period. That demonstrates the scale and capacity of the investment that has been made in Scotland as a result of the Government’s policy approach.

Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con)

I welcome the investment at Coalburn in South Lanarkshire, but in the light of the announcement yesterday by the National Energy System Operator of a pause in the applications process for new entrants to the connections queue—because there are far more of them than there is demand—does the First Minister agree that there should be a national strategy for energy storage in Scotland that matches approval by the Scottish Government’s energy consents unit for battery storage sites with actual demand and with where there is community buy-in?

The First Minister

Mr Simpson raises some interesting points, but we have to be mindful of the economic opportunities that arise out of energy production.

Energy production will be a significant economic asset for Scotland in the years to come, in just the same way that energy production has been a significant economic asset for Scotland until now. The difference, looking forward, is that I want to make sure that Scotland benefits from that energy strategy and policy. We did not benefit from the previous energy opportunity that we had in Scotland; I want to make sure that we benefit from the next one.


Bowel Screening Programme (Extension)

5. Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con)

To ask the First Minister, in light of the rise in the number of people under 50 being diagnosed with bowel cancer, what proposals the Scottish Government has to extend the national bowel screening programme to those under 50 years old. (S6F-03699)

The First Minister (John Swinney)

I thank Edward Mountain for raising this important issue and for the commendable commitment and leadership that he has shown on the issue inside and outside Parliament.

The Scottish Government, along with the rest of the United Kingdom, follows advice about screening programmes from the United Kingdom National Screening Committee, which is an independent expert advisory group. Scotland has fully adopted the National Screening Committee’s recommendation to invite everyone aged between 50 and 74 for bowel screening every two years. The recommendation was based on a thorough assessment of the risks and benefits of screening people at different ages. I assure Parliament that if the National Screening Committee recommended a lower age range, we would explore, as a matter of urgency, how that could be taken forward in Scotland.

Edward Mountain

I am proud that our national health service in Scotland and this Government have led the way in bowel screening since 2017. I am personally grateful for that. However, it is clear that, with the increasing number of young people getting bowel cancer, we need to do more work. One of the most cost-effective ways to do that is not necessarily to increase screening. Rather, it is to ensure that GPs are aware of the problem and refer people for further tests at the first sign that they may have bowel cancer. I probably agree with the First Minister on that.

Where I disagree, and where Bowel Cancer disagrees, relates to greater sensitivity in our screening programme. I have been pushing for that, but I have been told that there is a lack of capacity in colonoscopies to allow it to happen. The result is that that ignores the real costs of bowel cancer treatment, which could include radiotherapy, chemotherapy and surgery, all of which have a huge cost. Will the Government commit to carrying out a cost benefit analysis of increasing the sensitivity of bowel screening, in line with the National Screening Committee’s recommendation, to ensure that Scotland continues to lead the way in bowel cancer screening, as we should?

The First Minister

First, I thank Mr Mountain for his commendation of the steps that the Government is taking on bowel screening. The bowel screening programme is an excellent programme. It is very convenient for members of the public and it is very efficient. It is also very important for the management of individuals’ health. I am grateful for Mr Mountain’s comments in that respect.

I will consider all the points that Mr Mountain has put to me about the bowel screening programme and will ask the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care to advise me on those points. It is important that we take all practical steps to act in accordance with the clinical advice that is available to us. Mr Mountain and I are probably in the same place on respecting that clinical advice, but if there are specific mechanisms that we can deploy that will make a difference, I will be happy to consider them.

David Torrance (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)

It is welcome that, a number of years ago, Scotland—ahead of parts of the UK—fully adopted the UK National Screening Committee’s recommendation to screen all individuals between the ages of 50 and 74. Will the First Minister advise how the Scottish Government will continue to invest in screening services, alongside endoscopy and urology services, to support patients across Scotland?

The First Minister

That is principally taken forward through our endoscopy and urology diagnostic recovery and renewal plan, which is supported by £70 million-worth of investment. It is focused on bolstering endoscopy capacity through the recruitment of additional endoscopists. We have established a network of hubs to support us in that rapid access to diagnostic services. The points that Mr Torrance raises are important in enhancing the effectiveness of the services that we have available to us.

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)

This week is less survivable cancers awareness week. Sixty-one per cent of people in Scotland who are diagnosed with less survivable cancers—that is, lung, liver, brain, oesophagus, pancreatic and stomach cancers—will die from their disease within one year. In common with bowel cancer cases, early diagnosis and treatment are key to improving survival rates for such patients. Although the cancer strategy is welcome, we need action to be taken more quickly if we are to save lives. What more will the First Minister do to improve early diagnosis of the cancers that I have mentioned, and to drive better outcomes for patients?

The First Minister

Jackie Baillie has raised an important issue. I reassure her that the Government is absolutely committed to that endeavour. We are treating more cancer patients on time, within both standards, than we did 10 years ago: 12 per cent more within the 31-day standard and 6 per cent more within the 62-day standard. The median wait for treatment within the 31-day standard is just four days. Ms Baillie’s point about rapidity is absolutely well made, and the Government is working hard to deliver that aim.

My principal answer to Jackie Baillie is that our focus is on developing rapid cancer diagnostic services, which are critical to ensuring that the earliest possible action and intervention happen to address the circumstances that she has put to me. That will remain the focus of the Government’s intervention in that area of policy.


Sexual Assault (Hospitals)

To ask the First Minister how the Scottish Government is responding to reports that 182 sexual assaults, including rapes, have taken place in hospitals in the last five years. (S6F-03721)

The First Minister (John Swinney)

Assaults on patients or staff are absolutely abhorrent and cannot be tolerated. Everyone has the right to access healthcare or their place of work without fear of verbal or physical abuse. All instances of violent behaviour, including sexual assaults, are against the law and should be immediately reported to the police and dealt with by the justice system appropriately.

The NHS Scotland charter of patient rights and responsibilities makes clear to patients that they

“may face legal action if”

they are

“abusive, violent or aggressive towards NHS staff”

or members of the public

“when using NHS services.”

The NHS Scotland bullying and harassment workforce policy provides a means of addressing unresolved, significant or persistent sexual harassment and misconduct.

Claire Baker

The figures are shocking. Hospital patients are often vulnerable and exposed, and they and their families must be confident that they are safe. As the First Minister has said, the perpetrators of sexual assault and rape must be held to account. However, there are serious questions about how the national health service responds to such crimes and about its safeguarding procedures to prevent opportunities for them to occur.

The situation that is described in this morning’s report from the Royal College of Nursing, which mentions patients having to be treated in corridors, is not only a symptom of the NHS being overstretched; it leaves people in vulnerable situations. How does the Scottish Government ensure that robust safeguarding is in place, that the NHS takes sexual assaults in hospitals seriously, and that patients will be safe when they are in hospital?

The First Minister

On whether such issues are taken seriously, I hope that what I have said already reassures Claire Baker that, in all circumstances and in all aspects of our public services, any question of sexual assault or any form of sexual misconduct must be addressed by public authorities. They have statutory and legal obligations to do so, and I expect them to do that. We will reinforce that message in light of the point that Claire Baker has put to me.

As part of our approach to the patient safety programme, we must ensure that patients are safe at all times when they are in the care of the NHS. That includes ensuring that appropriate safeguarding is in place in all circumstances. It is the duty of all health boards to ensure that that is the case, and we will remind them of that obligation.

Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)

In the past five years, seven sexual assaults and two rapes have taken place at Carseview psychiatric unit in Dundee. Given the level of underreporting, those may be just the tip of the iceberg. I have heard horrendous accounts about how frightening it is to be a female patient at Carseview. The facilities there are often terrifying for patients, who are at their most vulnerable, especially as they include mixed-sex wards. That is not just me saying so; the Strang report agrees. Will the First Minister instruct his Government to stop the use of such wards in NHS hospitals and secure psychiatric settings, starting with those at Carseview?

The First Minister

As Tess White will know, work is under way to strengthen the approach to patient care at Carseview. As she has cited, that work was identified and taken forward by David Strang in his report. It has been pursued by NHS Tayside, and the effectiveness of that is being assessed regularly.

In relation to the question of single-sex wards, the NHS estate has to be managed carefully to make sure that appropriate safety is in place for individuals at all times. That principle should be applied to the care of patients at Carseview and in any other hospital setting.

We move to constituency and general supplementaries.


Scottish National Investment Bank (XLCC)

Kenneth Gibson (Cunninghame North) (SNP)

Yesterday, the Scottish National Investment Bank announced a welcome £20 million investment into XLCC, the company that is developing the United Kingdom’s first high-voltage direct current cable manufacturing facility, at Hunterston in my constituency. That £1.4 billion-plus project will create 900 highly skilled jobs and will position Scotland as a global leader in HVDC technology. Does the First Minister agree that that is a first-class opportunity for Scotland to help to drive net zero innovation? What will his Government do to ensure that that project and similar projects secure the support needed to thrive?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

I very much welcome the announcement that has been made by XLCC in relation to the facility at Hunterston. That is an example of exactly what we envisaged with the Scottish National Investment Bank—that it would provide the opportunity for investment through that mechanism to support private sector investment and leverage much more significant volumes of private sector investment into the Scottish economy. The funding model is working, which helps us in taking forward our net zero ambitions.

I am delighted that Mr Gibson’s constituency has benefited in the way that he has recounted to Parliament. It is important from the Government’s point of view that the Scottish National Investment Bank is actively engaged in supporting investments as part of our transition to net zero.


Urgent Cancer Referrals (Timeframes)

Sharon Dowey (South Scotland) (Con)

I was contacted this week by a constituent in Prestwick. He attended an appointment with his general practitioner on 30 December with a lesion on his back suspected to be skin cancer. His GP made an urgent referral to dermatology. Having twice been diagnosed with skin cancer, he knows that it demands urgent attention. Despite that, he was told that it would be

“over 12 months before he could be seen at hospital, despite the referral being marked urgent.”

For someone with suspected cancer, 12 months could be the difference between life and death. Does the First Minister think that that is an acceptable timescale? What action will the Scottish Government take to ensure that urgent cancer referrals such as that are seen within appropriate and safe timeframes?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

If a clinician believes that a case is urgent, that priority should be reflected in the national health service. I do not know the details of the case that Sharon Dowey puts to me, but if she cares to provide us with the details, we will investigate the issues that she raises.

As I said in my answer to Jackie Baillie, urgent intervention on cancer-related cases is absolutely critical to ensuring that individuals have the best outcomes possible. If Sharon Dowey would care to provide me with the details, I will have those looked into today.


Diabetes Technology (Guidelines)

Foysol Choudhury (Lothian) (Lab)

Last week, I led a members’ business debate on diabetes technology, in which I highlighted that Scottish intercollegiate guidelines network guideline 170, which gives people with type 1 diabetes a choice in technology to manage their condition, is not being fully followed in all health boards. In her speech, the Minister for Public Health and Women’s Health stated that children are being given a choice, but she failed to mention adults. Does the First Minister agree that health guidelines should be followed, including for adults with type 1 diabetes?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

The guidelines are there for a purpose, which is to provide advice to clinicians and assurance to patients about how individuals should be treated. There will, of course, be challenges in the delivery of those services within the resources that we have available to us, but the SIGN guidelines are there for a purpose, and I encourage health boards to follow those in all circumstances.


Department for Work and Pensions (Data)

Collette Stevenson (East Kilbride) (SNP)

Yesterday, the Secretary of State for Scotland, Ian Murray, claimed that the Scottish National Party Government had not yet asked for Department for Work and Pensions data to end the two-child cap. However, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice wrote to the DWP and the Secretary of State for Scotland on the issue last month. Can the First Minister offer the Secretary of State for Scotland any advice on how to keep up with his inbox and support tackling child poverty in Scotland?

The First Minister should address matters for which he has general responsibility.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

It is important that accurate information is given to the public about the measures that are being taken forward on the Government’s policy agenda. On 16 December, the Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice wrote to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, copying in the Secretary of State for Scotland, to specify the data sharing requirements. Those included:

“• Data for all children attached to the Universal Credit claim, including date of birth.

• Data for which children on the Universal Credit claim are included in the UC payment.

• Data for all children who are paid under the Universal Credit exemptions rules including the exemption reason.

• Central Payment System benefit code.

• All data already shared by DWP for the purposes of administering Scottish Child Payment but expanded to include children up to age 19 years old ...

• Data on the UC payment cycles for the claims.”

I was assured by the Prime Minister, face to face, that the DWP would work collaboratively with us to take forward the policy. It is not helpful, and it is not representative, for the Secretary of State for Scotland to make the comments that he made yesterday. If we are going to have an improved climate of relations between the Scottish and the United Kingdom Governments, the UK Government better keep its side of the bargain.


Lloyds Banking Group Dunfermline (Closure)

Roz McCall (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)

I am sure that the First Minister is aware of the surprise announcement by Lloyds Banking Group concerning the closure in 2026 of its base in Dunfermline, which currently employs 1,500 people. Although I am relieved to hear that the intention is that there will be limited job losses, with workers either relocating to Edinburgh or working remotely, the impact of the announcement on the local community has been vast, and the potential extra costs for staff members remain deeply concerning. What engagement has the Scottish Government had with Lloyds Banking Group on its surprise decision? Will the First Minister work to ensure that any impact of the move will be minimal for employees and people who live in the area?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

Those are matters for Lloyds Banking Group to determine. The Government engages actively with it, and I suspect that the issues will be discussed at the next meeting of the financial services growth and development board, which is co-chaired by the Scottish Government. We will certainly do all that we can to ensure that there is no loss of employment and that the individuals who are affected are not inconvenienced as a consequence of the decision that Lloyds Banking Group has taken.


Exploration of Oil and Gas

Fergus Ewing (Inverness and Nairn) (SNP)

Thirty million United Kingdom homes are heated by gas, and half of the gas that we need is imported. The less gas we produce here, the more we will rely on the USA for fracked gas. Does the First Minister agree that, like Norway, and as Russell Borthwick of the Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce has urged, we must resume exploration of oil and gas, otherwise we will only be providing a further boost to the fracking industry that is so beloved of the President-elect, Donald Trump?

The First Minister (John Swinney)

It is important that we undertake the transition to net zero that society must undertake, because, as we have already discussed in the Parliament, all the evidence is that there will be catastrophic circumstances if we do not address the use of fossil fuels within our economy. The Government has a managed approach to that policy objective, which is about ensuring that we have a just transition and invest in our renewable energy technology. I am confident that Scotland will have the energy generation capacity that we need to meet the challenges of the future. We must work with the industry on a just transition strategy, which is what the Government is doing.


Foot-and-mouth Disease

Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)

My constituency was one of the areas most severely hit in the 2001 foot-and-mouth disease outbreak. My brother and I were directly affected because our farm was only a stone’s throw away from one of the first farms in Scotland that was affected, and it came under movement restrictions for months.

The economic cost was not the only long-term legacy; emotional scars are still deeply felt across the rural communities that I represent. I vividly remember the heart-wrenching calls from friends and neighbours who had received the news that their beloved stock had to be destroyed. For weeks on end, the acrid smoke from the pyres invaded houses and touched every life, whether it was directly connected to our farming community or not.

Will the First Minister set out what discussions the Scottish Government has had with its UK counterparts and NFU Scotland to ensure that everything is done to prevent the disease once again wreaking havoc in Scotland?

I draw particular attention to concerns that the Republic of Ireland could become the back door through which the disease might return via our port in Cairnryan.

The First Minister (John Swinney)

Active discussions on those questions are held constantly between the Scottish and United Kingdom Governments. A case of foot-and-mouth disease has emerged in Germany, so the issue is live and topical.

The Scottish Government will take all necessary steps to ensure that we are properly engaged in the process, and we will engage stakeholders to ensure that the terrible circumstances that Mr Carson reminds us of, which took place 24 years ago, are not repeated. The chief veterinary officer of the Scottish Government is actively involved in those issues, as are ministers.

The Presiding Officer

That concludes First Minister’s question time. There will be a short suspension to allow people who are leaving the chamber and the public gallery to do so.

12:46 Meeting suspended.  

12:47 On resuming—