Meeting of the Parliament

Meeting date: Wednesday, May 15, 2024

Official Report 1102KB pdf

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Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill

The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-13230, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill, which is an emergency bill motion. I remind members that, as per rule 11.3.1(h) of standing orders, the question on the motion will be put immediately after the debate. I invite members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons.

I call Jamie Hepburn to speak to and move the motion.

17:17  

I seek Parliament’s agreement to treat the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill as an emergency bill. The bill seeks to ensure parity of justice for sub-postmasters in Scotland who are excluded from the scope of the United Kingdom Post Office (Horizon System) Offences Bill.

Despite the Scottish Government providing the UK Government with the straightforward amendments that would have extended the scope of the bill, and its decision to extend its provisions to Northern Ireland, it chose not to extend the bill’s provisions to Scotland. Therefore, it is clear that we need Scottish legislation, and we have introduced that this week.

The bill’s proposals mirror those of the UK Government in allowing sub-postmasters with relevant convictions in Scotland, as defined in the bill, to have their convictions quashed the day after royal assent is obtained. Scottish ministers will take reasonable steps to identify those convictions and to notify the person and the court that the conviction has been quashed. A person whose conviction has been quashed will then have access to the UK Government redress scheme.

It is imperative that Scottish sub-postmasters, like others across the rest of the UK who were convicted of offences based on tainted Horizon evidence, have their convictions quashed and are therefore able to seek redress as quickly as possible and in line with those in the rest of the UK. As a result, Scottish legislation needs to be in place as soon as possible after the UK bill is passed—but only after its final form is known, so that we can take account of any amendments that are made. The UK legislation is proceeding through Westminster, but we do not yet have the final timetable for that.

As Parliament is aware, our way of progressing legislation is very different from the Westminster process. Although the UK Government can take forward bills in a matter of months—and sometimes less—our processes normally take a little longer. I am sure that none of us will want that to be the case for this bill, which will ensure that sub-postmasters can seek compensation for the quashing of their conviction in the same timeframe as their counterparts in the rest of the UK. Therefore, I hope that Parliament will agree that this bill must be an emergency bill.

I hope that members will understand that we seek to have a bill that will not do anything to jeopardise equality and parity for victims. Although we are keen for the bill to progress quickly, with stages 1 and 2 being timetabled for next week, on 21 and 23 May, stage 3 cannot be considered in the Scottish Parliament until the UK legislation has been passed, to ensure that MSPs can take account of any amendments that are made to that legislation. However, we commit to timetabling stage 3 as quickly as possible following the passage of the UK bill. Although I hope that that will be before the Parliament breaks for recess, we should remind ourselves that the UK Parliament does not rise until mid-July.

The Scottish Government has introduced our bill swiftly and is now seeking the Parliament’s agreement to ensure that it passes at pace, too. I am sure that I speak for all members across the chamber when I say that sub-postmasters in Scotland and, indeed, across the rest of the UK have waited too long for justice and we must ensure that those in Scotland have full and equal access to the UK compensation scheme as soon as possible.

I move,

That the Parliament agrees that the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill be treated as an Emergency Bill.

17:20  

I will keep my remarks brief. The issue with the prosecutions of the Horizon scandal victims has been an emergency for some time. Over the past few weeks, Douglas Ross has tried to bring to the chamber Scotland’s most senior law officer, the Lord Advocate, so that she can clarify her comments. After voting against our attempts to make that happen three times, the Scottish Government has finally conceded, and it is right that the Lord Advocate will answer questions in the chamber tomorrow. It is important that the victims of this injustice have a clear, unconditional commitment from the Scottish Government, including from its law officers.

Sub-postmasters have waited too long for justice and have been let down by the Scottish National Party’s game playing in manufacturing a grievance with Westminster when everyone knows that Scots law is devolved. The bill acknowledges the nuanced changes that are required in the Scottish legal system. For months, the Scottish Conservatives have been calling on the SNP to step in and get on with introducing legislation to overturn the prosecutions. We therefore welcome the fact that the Scottish Government has finally introduced the bill, and we will support the Government’s motion, which will allow the bill to be expedited.

However, we would like the Scottish Government to go further by committing to passing the bill before the summer recess. There is no need to wait to see what other Governments do; Scotland has the powers to resolve the issue now. That is the right course of action, so let us get on with it.

17:22  

Scottish Labour will also support the motion. Emergency bills are unusual in this Parliament. As the minister said in opening this short debate, the way that we process law is different from how it is done in other places, and so it should be, because this is our Parliament. However, at times such as this—a time when it is imperative to consider legislation as soon as possible—the facility to do so should exist, and it does. Therefore, Scottish Labour will support the motion, and I hope that our support for the bill, once we have had a chance to look at it, will follow.

My question relates to rule 9.21 of standing orders, which deals with emergency bills. It states:

“Unless the Parliament decides otherwise on a motion of the Parliamentary Bureau”—

which is what we have before us today—

“Stages 1 to 3 of an Emergency Bill shall be taken on the same day.”

Today’s motion explains that stages 1 and 2 will take place on specific days next week—which is, of course, acceptable—but it is silent on stage 3. For completeness, I note that the minister gave an undertaking that the bill will be passed as soon as possible, but I wonder whether we could rectify what is possibly—

I welcome Mr Whitfield’s commitment to backing the motion. I have set out the necessity for this process, and he has recognised the need for us to take forward the bill urgently. We would prefer to be able to complete the process as quickly as possible—indeed, we are still committed to doing so.

I am very happy to pick up the point that Mr Whitfield has made directly with him. We can discuss the matter and, if we identify a necessity for a further motion, we can agree to that at the Parliamentary Bureau meeting next week.

I am very grateful for the minister’s undertaking to rectify what might be a textual problem. Given the nature and the rareness of emergency bills in the Parliament, and because of the travesty with the length of time that our post office owners, operators and workers have had to wait, we should put nothing at risk with this one.

I reiterate Scottish Labour’s support for the motion.

17:24  

The Scottish Greens fully support treating the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill as emergency legislation. We consider the scandal that has led us to this point to be a series of appalling miscarriages of justice, poor governance or the failure of trusted institutions on which sub-postmasters, their families and all our communities should have been able to rely. Never again must the lives, reputations and freedom of those working hard and honestly for their communities be sacrificed to defective corporate systems.

We welcomed the apology that was given by the Lord Advocate earlier this year, but an apology is not enough. Those who were convicted of crimes in the scandal must have their convictions quashed, so we support the principles of the legislation that we will discuss next week. However, legislation is not enough. We still need answers about how prosecutions were dealt with in Scotland, including the role of the Post Office and the significance of the evidence that was admitted under the corroboration rule. We need clear and accessible compensation for those who were unjustly accused and reimbursement of sub-postmasters who made payments to rectify Horizon errors out of their own pockets. We need to explore prosecution for those responsible for the fiasco and for the recovery of relevant awards, rewards and bonuses. We must make sure that we learn from what has happened regarding the outsourcing of sensitive systems to profit-driven corporate entities and the safeguards that are necessary in relation to increasingly privatised agencies.

For now, we have the legislation about the quashing of convictions. We must deal with it quickly, so I support today’s motion and look forward to our stage 1 and 2 discussions next week.

17:26  

The Scottish Liberal Democrats support the introduction of the legislation—of course we do—but it has taken far too long. Opposition parties have been asking for the Lord Advocate to come to the chamber to explain the Government’s intentions for weeks. With every delay, we increase the anxiety of the Scottish sub-postmasters who are at the heart of the matter.

The Government wasted time on a spat with the UK Government when it should have been doing all that it could to get victims the justice that they deserve, and with good haste. Too much of the process has been defined by confusion as to whether the Government backed blanket exonerations in the first place. For the sake of the victims of the scandal, I am glad that we are finally making some progress towards clarity on that.

This has been one of the most appalling miscarriages of justice in our national story. Lives and livelihoods have been ruined. One Scottish victim spoke recently about how he planned suicide and had to be sectioned due to the trauma that he experienced. He is still on medication for depression as a result. He said that the Government’s lack of clarity around whether he would have to go to court individually to have his conviction overturned had made matters worse.

Former Post Office workers across all four nations have tirelessly pursued the justice that they have been denied for so long. We owe it to them to move forward. Members of the public, the press and Government officials were repeatedly lied to in an industrial-scale deception on the part of the Post Office.

Scottish Liberal Democrats are pleased that emergency legislation to clear the victims of the scandal has now been brought to Parliament. We know that around 100 people may have been wrongly convicted by the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service in Scotland, based on evidence that was provided by the Post Office.

I am glad to see that the bill will mirror the UK bill, because every step that we take away from that legislation risks delaying justice for Scottish victims. It is vital now that they get the justice and redress that they are entitled to, and as quickly as possible. It is the very least that they deserve.

That concludes the debate on the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill motion. There is one question to be put, which is that motion S6M-13230, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill, which is an emergency bill motion, be agreed to.

Motion agreed to,

That the Parliament agrees that the Post Office (Horizon System) Offences (Scotland) Bill be treated as an Emergency Bill.