The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-15972, in the name of Meghan Gallacher, on introduction of NOVA Scotland. The debate will be concluded without any question being put. I invite members who wish to participate to press their request-to-speak buttons.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament recognises what it sees as the importance of having a service of support and guidance for veterans, such as those in the Central Scotland region, including those in the justice system; understands that, whilst veterans are not more likely to commit a crime than civilians, they are more likely to engage with the justice system; further understands that, in England, Op NOVA has a decade of experience working in partnership with health and justice systems to support veterans in living healthy, stable and crime-free lives, and that it provides emotional and practical support to veterans at all points of the justice system, including pre-arrest, arrest, post-arrest and those serving a custodial sentence; considers that, having been built on the foundations of Forces Employment Charity’s Project Nova, it has an evidence base and proven framework to deliver life-changing support to veterans with established partnerships in the justice sector; notes the belief, therefore, that NOVA Scotland would be crucial in enabling veterans to live stable lives by providing access to practical and emotional support across a variety of areas, and further notes the calls for the Scottish Government to look at measures to introduce NOVA Scotland.
17:12
For us as members, among the many highlights of being elected to represent our communities are the fantastic people whom we get to meet along the way. There are literally thousands of people in communities across the country who spend every single day helping others without expecting anything in return. I am fortunate enough to know one of those people: Scott Muir.
I first met Scott when I was a councillor in North Lanarkshire. I was aware of a veterans cafe that was being held every Friday, so one afternoon, I decided to pay a visit. When I arrived, I could not have been made more welcome. They were not used to politicians visiting, but they very quickly invited me to sit at a table with some members of our armed forces and veterans community. I was offered a bowl of soup—they told me that it was road-kill soup; to this day, I do not know whether it was or not, but it was enjoyable all the same—and we spent the next few hours chatting away. I listened to their views on the issues of the day and asked whether there was anything that the council could do to help them.
It was there that I met Scott. He is one of the driving forces behind Veterans Community (Lanarkshire)—VCLAN—which is the group that is responsible for holding those cafes every Friday. It is a brilliant initiative to enable our armed forces and veterans community in Lanarkshire to get together, enjoy a warm meal and socialise. Scott is the definition of a community champion—I know that I am going to be in a lot of trouble for mentioning him in the chamber, as he is not someone who enjoys having the spotlight shone on him, but he certainly deserves the recognition; I suppose that he can chin me later for doing so.
The truth is that I would not be raising the matter of NOVA Scotland in the chamber today if it was not for Scott. When he shared with me the NOVA Scot proposals and how the service had the potential to transform the lives of many veterans in Scotland, I knew that I had to seek answers from the Scottish Government.
So, what exactly is NOVA Scot? To put it simply, the project champions veterans in the justice system or in times of crisis. The NOVA Scot service, were it to be introduced in full, would enable veterans to live stable lives by providing access to practical and emotional support across a range of areas including education, employment, accommodation, living skills, self-care, mental health and wellbeing, friendships and communities, drugs and alcohol and living a law-abiding life.
NOVA Scot has already established a direct referral pathway with Police Scotland and received referrals from a vulnerable persons database. Any veteran whom Police Scotland encounters who is deemed vulnerable—for example, there might be concerns relating to their mental health or to addiction or suicide—will automatically be referred to NOVA Scot.
Although the service is working well, veterans who are arrested or who go through the custody suites are not currently referred to NOVA Scot. That is because Police Scotland is able to refer those who enter the justice system only to organisations that are funded by a statutory body. As NOVA Scot is not currently funded through that model, it falls outwith the remit. Ideally, the service needs a letter of support from the Scottish Government, which would open the door to NOVA Scot being able to improve the identification of veterans in the justice system. Susie Hamilton, the Scottish veterans commissioner, has recently called for such improvements to be made in order to prevent reoffending.
There is a gap in the justice system when it comes to supporting veterans. I must stress that although veterans are no more likely than any other civilian in Scotland to commit a crime, the reasons that they fall into the justice system can often be prevented. By providing veterans with assistance early on, there is an opportunity to prevent them from ending up in the justice system in the first place.
NOVA Scot has been modelled on the highly successful Op NOVA service, which was commissioned in England in 2023 but has been operational since 2014. The primary objective is to provide a single pathway to support veterans to prevent them from entering the justice system. Op NOVA has access to, and receives referrals from, the police, the national health service, HM Prison and Probation Service and the NHS GP connect service.
That is the main difference between Op NOVA and NOVA Scot. The system in England has access to various different areas to which Nova Scot currently does not have access. As I said, all that is needed is for the Scottish Government to give the green light to replicate that system through the creation of a bespoke service in Scotland, which could transform lives.
I thank the member for giving way, and I commend her for bringing the debate to the chamber. Would she agree that it is important, in the context of the work that still needs to be done, that we remember that veterans can be women and young people, and they exist right across the social and demographic spectrum?
I can give you the time back, Ms Gallacher.
Absolutely. That is something that I completely support and is why I am so supportive of NOVA Scot: it is not about looking at veterans in silos—for example, as only men—but about ensuring that we consider the needs of women, families and young people, who are part of the forces family as well. Everyone can be supported through the system, but it is not fully operational yet. That is why I am bringing the debate to the chamber—to try to convince the Scottish Government to give the expanded service the green light so that we can get the support to people who need it.
Importantly, Op NOVA has dedicated caseworkers who are assigned to work directly with veterans, enabling them to build a strong one-to-one relationship. It provides veterans with someone whom they trust while the best programme of help and support for them is worked out. We have that through NOVA Scot but, again, the number of referrals that the Scottish service gets will be significantly lower, because it does not have the same access that Op NOVA has to the various other sectors.
The outcomes from Op NOVA speak for themselves. Of the total referrals that were received from Op NOVA, 82 per cent of veterans who engaged with the service noticed that their mental health improved; 76 per cent
“reported progress to a crime-free life”;
and 66 per cent noted improved relationships with family and friends. Those statistics can be replicated in Scotland if the Minister for Veterans and the Scottish Government would agree to put pen to paper.
Many veterans already feel a sense of detachment from decision making in this country, and they often feel that MSPs are not standing shoulder to shoulder with them. We can show today that, as a Parliament, we do care. NOVA Scot is about not just reducing reoffending in our veterans community, but showing that there is a tailored model of support, should any veteran fall on hard times. The best part is that it does not even need legislation. What NOVA Scot needs is the Scottish Government’s buy-in, so that it can hit the ground running by providing access to other sectors and ensuring that the project is veteran centred, with everyone pulling together to reduce veteran crime rates.
I firmly believe that adopting such a person-centred approach can positively change the lives of veterans throughout Scotland. I finish with a question to the minister. Will he approve the letter today, and will he give the green light to NOVA Scot?
We move to the open debate.
17:20
I will probably repeat some of the things that Meghan Gallacher covered, but I will not make much of an apology for that. I congratulate her on securing the debate on introducing NOVA Scotland. I commend the Forces Employment Charity for establishing the NOVA Scotland service and for the work that it has done in Scotland to date. I note that, again, I got a slight nudge from my office manager to speak in the debate, because—as I have previously said in the chamber—he is a veteran. He has not had any dealings with the justice system, although one could not say the same for some former Prime Ministers and Presidents—allegedly, Presiding Officer.
Before I go any further, it is important to reiterate a point that is made very early on in the text of Meghan Gallacher’s motion, which states that
“veterans are not more likely to commit a crime than civilians”.
However, as the motion also mentions,
“they are more likely to engage with the justice system”,
and that is where the work of NOVA Scotland will prove invaluable, as it has already done since the service was established last year.
The service is following in the footsteps of what has already been done in England, as Meghan Gallacher said, and I do not believe in reinventing the wheel. I have no issues with taking ideas that work well elsewhere in the world and bringing them to Scotland, especially if they are going to benefit our communities and our veterans. In this case, we did not have to look that far.
Over the past year, there has been a great deal of discussion about veterans in the justice system, much of which has been sparked by the Scottish veterans commissioner, Susie Hamilton, who investigated the subject and published her “Veterans and the Law” report. That report covers the history of what started out as project Nova in 2014 and went on to become Op NOVA in 2023, and it outlines a tale of success in supporting veterans in the justice system.
The report states that, for the 700 veterans who completed the Op NOVA journey,
“the reported outcomes were:
• 97% reported progress in at least one outcome area
• 82% reported improved mental health
• 78% reported progress with accommodation
• 76% reported progress to a crime-free life
• 76% reported progress in drug and alcohol treatment
• 74% reported progress in managing strong feelings
• 72% reported progress with parenting and caring
• 69% reported progress in living skills and self-care
• 66% reported progress in friends and community”.
If Nova Scotland can produce similar outcomes for our veterans, I will be truly delighted.
I finish by reiterating that the majority of veterans transition well to civilian life, and that veterans are less likely to commit a crime, but that is not the case for everyone. For some who have left the forces, a range of factors—poor physical or mental health, debt, homelessness, alcohol or drug misuse and family breakdown, among other things—can lead them into contact with the justice system. That is where we need to support our veterans better, and I look forward to seeing that happen through the pathway that NOVA Scotland is starting to provide.
17:24
I thank Meghan Gallacher for securing the debate and giving us the chance to explore this serious issue. We all want to see our veterans successfully adjust to life after they leave the armed forces, and many do so, but sadly some face a number of complex and challenging issues that make that transition difficult, such as homelessness, unemployment and mental health impacts. Unfortunately, a minority will also come into contact with the justice system, which can only add to the difficulties that they face in establishing stable lives for themselves. The question, then, is how we better support those veterans during their experience with the justice system so that, in the long run, they can move away from it.
We have heard from my colleague Meghan Gallacher a persuasive case for introducing Op NOVA in Scotland. I expect that the minister will have listened to that case closely, because, as I know from my role as convener of the cross-party group on the armed forces and veterans community, he is a strong supporter of our veterans. With that in mind, I will highlight some specific aspects of the Op NOVA service as it operates in England.
The first aspect concerns how the service interacts with individuals. Within 48 hours of a referral, an individual is assigned a caseworker, who then draws up a support plan that is tailored to that veteran’s specific needs. The caseworkers themselves all have experience of working with the justice system and have relationships with key partners such as the police, prisons, the NHS and accommodation services. I also note that the Op NOVA service delivers its support in prisons without putting additional pressure on prison staff—in fact, many of the caseworkers are key trained.
Op NOVA is not just a signposting service that takes down some details and pushes the veterans on to others—it offers a personalised approach that is unique to each veteran and is taken forward by experienced support staff. That is a powerful combination that we would do well to replicate in Scotland.
That brings me to another aspect of the service that I want to highlight: its results. In the 14 months of its operation in England, Op NOVA was active across all police and probation regions and was being rolled out to more than 100 prisons from April last year. In total, it engaged with almost 1,500 veterans. Of those, as we have heard, 76 per cent reported progress being made towards “a crime-free life”. That is an impressive result in anyone’s book, and I believe that it demonstrates the validity of Op NOVA’s strategy.
Let us also consider the wider impact of that approach. A staggering 97 per cent
“reported progress in at least one outcome area”;
82 per cent reported an improvement in their mental health; and 78 per cent reported an improvement with accommodation.
In Scotland, 900 homelessness applications were made in the past financial year, and for those who were assessed, the key support issue was mental health. Those figures are not confined to veterans in the justice system, but the point remains that homelessness and mental ill health are both serious issues in Scotland, and any programme that has the potential to tackle an aspect of those problems must be explored. No one is pretending that any one initiative has all the answers, but where we have evidence that something is making a real and positive difference to veterans’ lives, we owe it to them to take it seriously.
17:28
I congratulate Ms Gallacher, the member for Central Scotland, on securing the debate. It is a privilege to be able to take part in the debate, and I put on record that members on the Labour benches have a huge admiration for the work of NOVA in supporting veterans to address their challenges. I pay tribute in particular to Ms Gallacher’s constituent, Scott, who is clearly doing admirable work such that it has caught the attention of the member; I hope that he continues to persevere and innovate in serving the constituents of Central Scotland in that endeavour.
As I said in December during the Government debate on support for the veterans and armed forces community in Scotland, Labour members
“are eager to work on a cross-party basis”—[Official Report, 5 December 2024; c 70.]
to ensure that armed forces members and veterans are supported, whether they are in service or are transitioning to civilian life.
That transition is often very successful. As members have mentioned, veterans are some our finest and most achieving citizens. However, the transition can also be very challenging. The physiological and emotional impacts of their service, often in very traumatic circumstances—especially in the last 20 years or so—mean that everyday life can be challenging.
From personal experience, I know that some of my friends who served in Afghanistan often found civilian life somewhat trivial when they came back and that everyday challenges—which I suppose we would colloquially describe as first-world problems—could often lead to low frustration tolerance. When we were younger, I remember going out in Glasgow after people had come back from Afghanistan, and there was an increased tendency to get into scraps because they found arguments more frequently than might otherwise have been the case. Patience was low.
That was often countered by having what was known as “decompression,” where units would stay together after coming back from hot conflict zones and try to maintain some cohesion as they slowly transitioned back into civilian life. However, people often found that very difficult—not least those who had lost colleagues, where there was an underlying sense of guilt.
In May, it will have been 12 years since my friend Robert Hetherington was sadly killed in Afghanistan. I still very vividly recall attending his funeral just a few yards from here at the Canongate kirk. It was a harrowing experience for all of us, because that should have been his wedding, not his funeral. Seeing people in their 20s in that context is a very jarring experience. I think that a lot of us still struggle to come to terms with the fact that he is no longer with us—particularly in recent years, as the conflict in Afghanistan has come to an end. We often question what the purpose of it all was, in the end.
I thank Paul Sweeney for his very moving speech.
Would he agree that one of the challenges for our veterans who have served in a theatre of war or a conflict zone is that—I have heard this directly from them—having been trained that the response to violence is greater violence, they come back into civilian life and can genuinely struggle to adapt to it? Whatever form decompression takes needs to take account of that and those circumstances.
I agree. It is often said that the art of soldiering is the “controlled application of violence” on behalf of the state. That is essentially the purpose of the army: to close with, make contact with and kill the enemy. At the end of the day, that is what fixing a bayonet at the end of a rifle is about. When you have been taught to do that under certain circumstances, as controlled by officers, it can be challenging to have that control mechanism taken away. That can often be difficult for people.
When I speak to veterans, they tell me that the loss of structure and purpose that the military environment offers, with clear rules and routines—as well as a cohesive identity as a group within the military—is particularly tough to lose. A lot of self-esteem is wrapped up in that: the regiment, the tradition, the ship, or whatever it might be. It is difficult to transition to life outside the armed forces.
The loss of such a tight structure can make someone feel as though they have lost their identity and that they no longer have a clear purpose. That can often have a knock-on effect on veterans’ mental health, and anxiety, depression and substance abuse are all too often common features of people in the veterans’ community, and of younger veterans in particular. So, it is crucial that the appropriate services are in place.
Although it is welcome that priority has been given to the healthcare of veterans, the Government cannot be complacent about the quality of the services—in particular, the quality and accessibility of mental health services.
We know, for the reasons outlined by Ms Gallacher, that veterans might, unfortunately, end up in the justice system, and we must ask ourselves whether the correct support was ever available to them to avoid that outcome. Certainly, we must not diminish the seriousness of criminal offences. However, when veterans find themselves in the justice system, NOVA Scotland can be there for them at all points. Whether that is assistance in the wake of an arrest or support for those serving a custodial sentence, it is on hand and able to act as a mentor and a consistent point of contact.
It is good to know that NOVA Scotland works across Scotland with all 32 local authorities to assist vulnerable veterans so that they can rebuild their lives. As mentioned earlier, that was a key part of the recommendations made by the Scottish veterans commissioner. Those interventions could prevent offending and allow veterans to rebuild their lives in a more productive way. That would be good for the community and for everyone involved.
With its experience elsewhere in the United Kingdom over the last decade, I know that it has unrivalled experience and I look forward to seeing its work develop in Scotland. It is very encouraging to see it do that. That one-stop-shop approach and consistent point of contact is critical, and I commend its work.
17:34
I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in the debate, Presiding Officer, and I thank Meghan Gallacher for bringing the motion to the chamber.
I would like to say how much I have enjoyed all the contributions. I will comment on what Paul Sweeney talked about and what Graeme Dey mentioned in his intervention. As I was once bluntly reminded by Tom Tugendhat, no less, the stark reality is that our armed forces are—fundamentally—trained to kill the King’s enemies. That is often the stark nature of the business that they are asked to take care of. We therefore owe an enormous and on-going debt of gratitude to every man and woman who serves in our armed forces.
Although I have no personal connection with the armed forces, other than as someone who has benefited from their service, as it were, I have always been drawn to the idea of the military covenant. It is a moral obligation that the state has to those who have served our country. It is not a new idea, but it is an idea that we need to make much more real in our veterans’ lives.
Since the deployments to Afghanistan and Iraq, which have been mentioned in passing, there has been progress in enshrining in law certain entitlements for our veterans. The establishment of an office for veterans affairs at the Ministry of Defence was an important step forward, and I pay tribute to Johnny Mercer, who did so much to make that happen.
Keith Brown is not in his place, which is a shame, because he would have heard me say something nice about him, but I pay tribute to him and to Graeme Dey, who I know are deeply committed to the work of supporting our veterans and have done outstanding work as ministers for veterans in their turn. I also compliment Maurice Golden and former MSP Maurice Corry on the excellent work that is done in the cross-party group for the armed forces and veterans community.
The military covenant does not yet do what it should do but, if the minister were to agree to the petition made today by Meghan Gallacher and commit to paper, as it were, the authorisation for NOVA Scot to do the good work that it does in a recognised way, that would be another step forward in making the obligations that we should all feel towards the men and women of our armed forces and security services real and tangible. The United States has set the bar through how it looks after its veterans, and we can learn much from it.
Jackie Dunbar made the point that it is important to make it clear that, in the main, our veterans leaving the armed forces manage the transition from military life to civilian life, but some do not, and those people are the focus of our debate. They give selfless service, sometimes at significant personal cost, and they are left grappling for the rest of their lives with physical injury or mental health injury, and perhaps with an inability to manage their affairs as completely as they and their families would like. They have a sense—Paul Sweeney described it well—of feeling isolated and withdrawn from the society that they belong to and to which they have given so much. That is why Op NOVA and NOVA Scot are such important services, because they are holistic, individual and customised.
In the report “Veterans and the Law”, which the Scottish veterans commissioner produced just a few months ago, Susie Hamilton identified the work that Op NOVA in England has done. I believe that we should take the fullest possible advantage of that in Scotland. The idea of an individual caseworker and the individual referral case pathway is very important.
Will the member take an intervention?
I am conscious of the time. Do I have time to give way, Presiding Officer?
Yes.
The point that the member makes about the individual caseworker is really important. Anecdotally, I found that, although the different charities mean well, people who were phoning them up were being sent from pillar to post. There was a lack of consistency, and the level of frustration eventually scunnered people enough that they disengaged. That is an important point to address.
I am grateful for that intervention. Paul Sweeney refers to the practical support when a veteran connects with another veteran, who is able to direct and connect them to health services, mental health support and other practical support of which they stand in need.
I repeat that we have the country that we have in large measure because of the sacrifices—often unspoken and unreported—of the men and women of our armed forces and security services. We owe them our deepest gratitude. We have a long way to go in honouring them through a proper armed forces covenant, but let the debate and the simple ask that it makes of the minister be a tangible expression of our commitment to support them for as long as that support is required.
17:40
I thank Meghan Gallacher for lodging the motion and I thank members—particularly Paul Sweeney—for their contributions.
Members will be aware that veterans and the law is a key theme in the UK-wide strategy for our veterans. In our veterans strategy action plan, the Scottish Government is committed to the outcome of veterans leaving the armed forces with the resilience and awareness to remain law-abiding civilians. We continue to work with key partners and stakeholders to support the delivery of that outcome, which has included engagement with NOVA Scotland throughout the past year.
As we heard, NOVA Scotland collaborates with Police Scotland, the Scottish Prison Service and local authority criminal justice social work teams. Its caseworkers support veterans in the criminal justice system to address their challenges and help them to rebuild their lives and move forward beyond the justice system.
The small NOVA Scotland team has been engaging with my officials as it seeks to formalise its referral partnership with Police Scotland and to determine whether it is necessary or appropriate for the Scottish Government to offer some sort of formal recognition or endorsement for the service. I point out that the service self-evidently sits predominantly in the justice space. We support NOVA Scotland’s aims and ambitions and recognise the benefits that its service can offer veterans and their families, but we are working with Police Scotland and others to determine the best way forward, including considering how that support complements the services that other partners offer.
Meghan Gallacher rose—
Just give me a moment.
Those partners include Sacro, the Scottish Prison Service, the NHS and other public and third sector bodies.
I give way to Meghan Gallacher.
I encourage members to press their request-to-intervene buttons.
I apologise, Presiding Officer. I understand what the minister says about the need to interact with others and look at the full picture when considering whether to endorse NOVA Scotland fully. However, my understanding is that the police are supportive of endorsement and want to proceed. The last conversation that I am aware of was in October last year. Has there been any update since then?
As I indicated, I am the veterans minister, not a justice minister, so I am not sighted on whether there has been anything in that area. I will give Meghan Gallacher a taste of our considerations. One thing that we should consider when deciding whether NOVA Scotland should have an enhanced role, which I am happy to explore, is its ability to scale up quickly to meet the demand that would come from having such a role.
Members will be aware that the Scottish Government recently welcomed the veterans commissioner’s latest thematic report, to which Stephen Kerr referred. The report noted areas of good practice across Scotland, including the services offered by NOVA Scotland. The commissioner mentioned how its referral partnership had replaced the previous arrest referral scheme between Police Scotland and the armed services advice project. Additionally, the report made five recommendations to the Scottish Government, including one that we should establish a co-ordinated and collaborative approach across Scotland to bring together statutory and third sector providers to support veterans in the criminal justice system. It is absolutely possible that NOVA Scotland will have an enhanced role to play in supporting the delivery of that and the other recommendations.
The commissioner’s reference to a joined-up, collaborative approach, as well as the additional recommendations on staff in the justice system being veteran aware and on retaining and supporting the role of veterans in custody support officers—or VICSOs, as they are known—chime with me particularly.
I visited HMP Shotts a year or so ago to meet some veterans who were in custody. I was struck by the dedication of the VICSOs and their desire to provide the best possible support to our veterans. It is clear that they are highly capable and hugely passionate about delivering their additional role as VICSOs, but they might benefit from additional awareness of other support services for veterans.
For example, during that visit, I heard of cases in which the service provided by Fares4Free might help to facilitate visits by loved ones that otherwise were not happening. My team put the VICSOs in touch with Fares4Free after the visit, and I understand that that resulted in families who had previously struggled to get to the prison being offered free transport for visits.
That sort of joined-up collaborative effort, which others have touched on, is exactly what the commissioner is asking for. NOVA Scotland could have a role to play in that too, because it is clear from that example that there is room for improvement.
More broadly, as part of our vision for justice, the Government has established a transformational change programme that brings together justice agencies to focus on work to help to embed trauma-informed practices and to ensure that our justice services can—to go back to some of the points that Paul Sweeney made—recognise the prevalence of trauma and adversity, realise when people are affected by trauma and respond in ways that reduce retraumatisation. It is right that that approach should encompass the ways in which veterans are treated in the justice system.
Scottish Government officials will highlight the commissioner’s recommendations to the transformational change programme board to get a better understanding of agencies’ capacity to deliver the operational changes that are required to deliver the long-term set of outcomes that the commissioner is looking for. I intend to have further discussions with the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs and justice agencies to better understand the current operational feasibility of the commissioner’s recommendations. The ask from NOVA Scotland will be considered against that backdrop.
I reiterate the Government’s commitment to veterans and that we will continue to provide our unwavering support to them and their families, including those who are in, have been in or are at risk of coming into contact with the criminal justice system. I again acknowledge Meghan Gallacher for bringing the motion to the chamber and members for their valuable and, indeed, enjoyable contributions.
Meeting closed at 17:46.Air ais
Decision Time