Official Report 1104KB pdf
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-15734, in the name of Graeme Dey, on support for veterans and the armed forces community in Scotland. I invite those members who wish to speak in the debate to press their request-to-speak button.
14:26
I am delighted to present the Government’s eighth annual update to Parliament on support for Scotland’s veterans and our armed forces community. These debates, as well as allowing us to celebrate our successes and those of our partners, offer members the chance to hold the Government to account and to bring forward ideas for improving Scotland’s offering. I welcome that, and I look forward to an informed debate.
As ever, I begin by reiterating the Government’s commitment to ensuring that our veterans and serving personnel and their families are not disadvantaged by their service, and that Scotland is their destination of choice when leaving the forces. Our commitment to those goals is absolute, and I know that members on all sides of the chamber share our dedication to the entire armed forces community.
Alongside the debate, as ever, we have published our annual report, which details fully what we and our partners have done throughout the past year. Some weeks ago, the Scottish veterans commissioner, who joins us in the public gallery today, published her progress report, in which she assessed the extent to which the Government and its partners are delivering the recommendations that have been made by her and her predecessors. I expect that colleagues will raise the content of that report during their contributions. I was pleased that Susie Hamilton referenced areas of notable progress, in particular around health and wellbeing and employability and skills. We should be proud of that work, and of the commissioner’s recognition of the efforts that we continue to make in driving forward the recommendations that she and her predecessors have made.
Nevertheless, the commissioner highlighted two specific concerns: the veterans mental health and wellbeing pathway, and the veterans homelessness prevention pathway. I will address each of those in turn.
The Government remains committed to ensuring that veterans can access the right mental health support when they need it, and I share the desire of the commissioner—and, I am sure, of all members—to see a new veterans mental health and wellbeing pathway established as quickly as possible. The veterans mental health and wellbeing pathway advisory group held its first meeting in March, and has met four times since. I am confident that the new pathway will progress the principles of the mental health action plan to ensure that all veterans in all areas of Scotland will have access to high-quality, veteran-specific mental health services.
I also welcome the news that the advisory group has agreed a preferred mode of delivery, and that two subgroups have been established to ensure that there is full engagement and consultation throughout the process. The group aims to sign off on a finalised model of delivery at its next meeting this month, which will pave the way for an implementation timetable in 2025.
In addition, funds have been secured to carry out a test of change for a three-tier veterans support service in three health board areas where there is currently no Veterans First Point service. That will take place over the remainder of the financial year and will then be extended for nine months of 2025-26.
In the light of what the minister says, does he share my disappointment that NHS Lothian is withdrawing its funding—a paltry £200,000 or thereabouts—to support the vital service that is provided by Veterans First Point Lothian? I know that the Scottish Government is still chipping in, but that funding was money well spent. Does the minister share my concerns about that?
I absolutely share Christine Grahame’s concerns, which are held across the veterans sector in Lothian. I offer her the reassurance that the Government remains engaged in that issue, to the extent that the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport and I will meet NHS Lothian next week.
As I said, the five remaining V1P services, local arrangements in place in NHS Highland and Shetland, and the delivery of an online clinical service by Combat Stress mean that veterans will have access to veteran-specific services across most of Scotland, but we want that to apply to all of Scotland.
I also note concerns about the pace of progress in implementing the pathway to prevent homelessness for veterans. I outline the positive work that has been progressed during a challenging time for the sector, and it is important to acknowledge that the number of homeless veterans in Scotland remains low. They are a relatively small proportion—around 2 per cent—of homeless households. However, I recognise the concern in that area.
The broad action that the Scottish Government is taking in response to the housing emergency will serve veterans’ housing interests as well as those of the wider population. Our Housing (Scotland) Bill includes new homelessness prevention duties that are designed to help people to get the support that they need earlier. That will help people to avoid the crisis of homelessness and the associated long-term harms.
The proposed new duties build on the existing rights for all those in housing need in Scotland, including veterans. We recognise that, when veterans become homeless, they might have particular needs. We will continue to work with partners, including the Veterans Scotland housing group, to prevent homelessness and improve outcomes for veterans. The Minister for Housing and I are considering what can be done, alongside the Government’s wider work on housing and homelessness, to better support veterans’ housing needs.
Despite those concerns, we have made progress in several areas, with dedicated partners from the public and third sectors. Collaboration remains at the heart of our approach, and I am grateful for the continuing work of our outstanding veterans sector.
This year, we have seen progress with obtaining data on veterans, particularly from the census. It is difficult to overstate the importance of that. The census told us, for example, that nearly 4 per cent of Scotland’s over-16 population have previously served in the armed forces. We should now use that data to support our veterans and their families. I have written to local authority armed forces and veterans champions across the country, so that we can consider how we deploy that information to provide better support at a local level.
Recognising the experiences of underrepresented groups in the veterans community and ensuring that they can access the support and services that they need has been a priority this year. We continue to work with stakeholders to go beyond the suggestions that were made to the Scottish Government in Lord Etherton’s “LGBT Veterans Independent Review” and ensure that the services that we fund are welcoming and inclusive to all.
I also met women veterans to understand their experiences and needs and how access to services can be improved for them. That meeting and what I heard there have stayed with me. I am absolutely committed to doing all that this Government and I can to respond to those needs. We also worked closely with the previous UK Government during the initial development of its women veterans strategy and I credit it for bringing forward that strategy. In her report on community and relationships earlier this year, the veterans commissioner highlighted support for historically underrepresented groups, and we are looking at how we can take forward the report’s recommendations.
In addition, the commissioner published a report on veterans and the law, to which I will provide a fuller response when the Cabinet Secretary for Justice and Home Affairs and I have considered the recommendations in more detail with partners in the justice sector.
Supporting veterans in both their physical and mental health remains a priority. In November last year, the general practice armed forces recognition scheme was launched. The scheme aims to raise awareness among all GP staff of some of the health challenges and impact of military service on the armed forces community, so that we can support the provision of appropriate healthcare. That was highlighted by the commissioner as a particularly welcome development, although she noted the low take-up of the scheme among GP practices, which I am personally exploring further. Let me be clear that I share entirely the commissioner’s disappointment at the uptake. To have had only around 120 of an estimated 5,000 staff avail themselves of that training is not what we had envisaged when we launched the scheme.
I am pleased to hear that the minister is exploring the issue further, because I share his disappointment. What can we, as members across the chamber, do to help to rectify that situation?
My ask of members is the ask that I have heard from the veterans charitable community—to spread the word. If members can raise the issue with the GP practices in their constituencies and regions and encourage greater uptake, that would be all to the good, because it needs to improve.
This year marked the 80th anniversary of the D-day landings, and I was honoured to attend the national commemorative event at the Usher hall in Edinburgh. The First Minister represented the Scottish Government and the people of Scotland at the UK D-day commemorations in Portsmouth and Normandy, and I attended the Anzac and Gallipoli remembrance services this year, too.
Commemoration and remembrance are critical aspects of our visible support for veterans and the armed forces community, and an important way for us to remember those who made the ultimate sacrifice for the freedoms that we often take for granted and to protect the democracy that we observe in this chamber every day.
I remain committed to providing the very best support for our veterans, their families and service families. I give my personal thanks again to all the individuals and organisations who have contributed to our efforts during the past year, and to those who continue to work hard every day to support our veterans and the armed forces community. Collectively, we can always do more, and I look forward to hearing members’ contributions and to responding to them when closing the debate and beyond.
I move,
That the Parliament recognises and acknowledges the importance of Scotland’s veterans and Armed Forces community and greatly values the significant contribution that it continues to make to society; further recognises that the contribution of veterans and their families continues and grows as they move back into the communities that they served, with their experiences positively enriching society and providing a valuable talent pool for employers, and agrees that the Scottish Government, cognisant of the important ongoing work of the Scottish Veterans Commissioner, should continue to work with partners across the public, private and third sectors to ensure that the veterans and Armed Forces community receives the best possible support and access to services.
Thank you, minister. I advise members that there is some time in hand, and therefore I can be generous with members’ speaking times.
14:36
Thank you, Presiding Officer—your generosity is always appreciated. I am also delighted to participate in the debate, as an MSP whose region has a long and rich history with our armed forces, both current and past.
I lament the absence of my colleague Edward Mountain from today’s debate—we all wish him well. It is a privilege to open the debate on his behalf, and I will try to cover some of the points that I think he would have wanted to make.
I say at the outset that, whatever our personal or political views on the many global conflicts that are occurring, I hope that we all agree about the courage and dedication of the members of our armed forces—those who are currently serving and our veterans. The motion recognises the sacrifice that is made for us and our country, as well as the contribution that our veterans continue to make in today’s society.
The motion rightly calls on the Scottish Government to work with stakeholders to improve the lives of veterans, and so it should. That includes the more than 50 veterans organisations that actively work in Scotland, many of which are in my region and many of which are under the umbrella of Veterans Scotland. There are too many for me to mention them all, but I commend in particular the work of Erskine, Poppyscotland, the Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Families Association, Veterans UK, Haig Housing Trust and Help for Heroes. There are too many others to mention, and I apologise to those that I have missed.
We have chosen, as is normal practice in such debates, not to amend the Government’s motion today, but we will raise some of the important points that came out of the Scottish veterans commissioner’s report.
Last March, I spoke in a Government debate on employment support for veterans. Members might recall that debate. I highlighted the story of a veteran of world war two, from Greenock, who came back a hero from battle and then went on to run a very successful local business until his sad death in 2002. He was a fine example of adapting and adjusting back into the local community.
In that debate 18 months ago, I reminded the Government of the very stark statistics. Back in 2021-22, an estimated 640 veterans were assessed as being homeless or as being threatened with homelessness. Today, the number is estimated to be more than 780: it is heading in the wrong direction. In fact, right across the UK, it is estimated that there are at least 2,000 homeless veterans. That is shocking by any measure. The minister talked about progress having been made, which is welcome, but in my view, it is shockingly poor that we see those statistics going in the wrong direction. My view is that the Government must accept some responsibility for that—that view is vindicated by the report.
We know that there are more than 175,000 veterans living in Scotland, but it is important to point out that there is no such thing as a typical veteran. Only half of them are over 65 years of age. There are around 7,000 of them in the Moray region—which I am sure we will hear a lot more about—17,000 in Fife and more than 10,000 in Glasgow and the West Scotland region that I live in. The majority of those veterans are male, of course, but more than 20,000 are female, and 43 per cent report having a disability or long-term health condition, and therefore a very specific set of needs.
However, that is where statistics end. It is good to see changes to the census data, but I do not know from it how many veterans are registered with their local general practitioner, how many are in meaningful employment and how many are engaged with addiction or mental health support services—or, indeed, how many are not.
Those three areas are relevant to veterans. I note from yesterday’s budget announcements that the budget line for drug and alcohol policy is being increased by just £500,000 year on year, after a £13 million cut the previous year. I do not mention that to make any political points, but to say that renewed focus on mental health services and support for our veterans with addiction problems is hugely important.
We cannot forget that housing, health, skills, employability and addiction services are all devolved areas—they are focuses of the Scottish Government and Parliament. I know that data exists out there, but until we can see a bigger picture of what the veteran community looks like, I do not think that services can fully develop policies to support it.
As members would expect, I will, of course, plug our proposed armed forces and veterans bill, which would enshrine in law the armed forces covenant for devolved bodies—a covenant behind which I hope we can all unite.
I also associate myself with the comments by the minister on Lord Etherton’s work in his independent review into the historical treatment of LGBT veterans, many of whom reside in or came from Scotland. Next week, the UK Parliament will hold a debate on the review, and I am sure that the veterans community will be watching with great interest. There are too many people to mention and thank in relation to that.
While we are on the subject of Westminster, I note that many veterans have contacted me ahead of today’s debate and expressed concerns about the new Labour UK Government’s approach to the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023, after the statement that was made in the House of Commons on that legislation. I hope that it will wish to reflect on those concerns.
I will conclude on a note of unity. The Parliament’s steadfast support for our armed forces and veterans is not a partisan issue and should never be up for debate. It is our responsibility to support the people who protect us. They pay the ultimate price with their physical and mental health, and too many of them are still hidden from the eyes of policy makers, lawmakers and service providers.
It is all very well for us to talk from the chamber and its wood-lined panels—a luxury that our veterans never had when they went to fight on our behalf. We owe them. Although I support the motion in the Government’s name, I do so while expecting much more progress to have been made when we meet again to discuss next year’s report.
I call Paul Sweeney to open on behalf of Scottish Labour, for a generous four minutes.
14:42
I join the minister in welcoming to the gallery retired Lieutenant Commander Susie Hamilton, who is the Scottish veterans commissioner. We all agree that she does amazing work in public service of our country and the veterans community in Scotland, which, as Mr Greene mentioned, numbers 176,100 people, according to the last census. By my reckoning, that is a population that is about the equivalent of that of Scotland’s fourth-largest city, just beating Dundee. It is a significant cohort of people, half of whom are, as has been mentioned, active working-age people who are very much contributing and dynamic citizens in our country. They are, indeed, some of our best citizens, as is typified by the veterans commissioner.
It is a privilege to open for the Labour Party in the debate on the motion of support for the veterans and the armed forces community in Scotland. I was pleased, too, to sign the motion, in the spirit of consensus on its sentiments. We must all, nonetheless, collaborate to ensure that we deliver the best possible public policy environment to support our veterans community.
The transition from service life to civilian life is not an easy one for many people. There is much work to be done to make that transition smoother and to tackle many of the prevalent issues that veterans come up against. I highlight that, in many conversations that I have had with serving members of the armed forces in recent years, many expressed feeling immense pressure to terminate their careers in the armed forces prematurely due to family pressures, issues around childcare and education or spouses seeking employment opportunities that they were not otherwise able to find. That came out loud and clear in conversations with members of the Army, whether at Glencorse in Midlothian or Lossiemouth in Moray.
It is important that, in considering the on-going strategic defence review, the Scottish Government takes an all-Government approach to ensuring that the resilience of our armed forces is sustained by public policy across all tiers of government, in order to support our armed forces personnel to sustain their careers until the point at which they wish to exit service.
It has been highlighted in the early stages of the strategic defence review that we are losing too many people from our armed forces. There is a real strategic challenge in recruitment and retention. Given the on-going geopolitical situation, that is a major national security concern. We all have a responsibility to ensure total national resilience in that respect.
We also need to consider the significant cohort of working-age veterans in Scotland and how we might promote greater recruitment to the reserve forces. It is not simply about hot conflicts but about ensuring home resilience. Given the extreme weather events and other major risks that face the country, having greater depth in the armed forces in Scotland through the reserves would be welcome. Greater engagement from the Scottish Government in that respect, as part of the strategic defence review, would be welcome. I know that the Scottish Government has submitted a report with its feedback to the defence review. It would be welcome if the minister could comment on that in his closing remarks.
It continues to be the case that many veterans face trouble with accessing housing, employment and skills development when they leave the armed forces. No one should be forced to face homelessness or sleeping rough. Homelessness among the veterans community remains extremely high. The Scottish Government’s slow progress towards delivery of the veterans homelessness prevention pathway is apparent, with a total of 935 homelessness applications having been submitted by veterans last year, which is the highest figure since 2018-19. That is not good enough, and there is no doubt that the Government’s decision to slash the affordable housing budget last year will have had a particular knock-on effect on veterans. Without the fundamental security of having shelter and a roof over their heads, how are our veterans expected to adjust to their new lives in civilian environments?
Although it is welcome that priority has been given to the healthcare of veterans, the Government must not be complacent about the quality of the services that are provided—in particular, the quality and accessibility of mental health services. It was particularly disappointing to read in the detailed breakdown of the Scottish Government’s draft budget publication yesterday that there is to be a real-terms cut in mental health funding. That will certainly not be helpful.
Veterans are especially vulnerable to mental health challenges. I know that from personal experience and that of my friends. It is no surprise, given the exposure to trauma that comes with military service, often with the loss of friends at a young age, that veterans are at increased risk of developing depression, anxiety and post-traumatic stress disorder. In her recent annual progress report, which was published on 18 September, the Scottish veterans commissioner warned, for a second year, about the delays in realisation of the veterans mental health and wellbeing action plan.
Glasgow’s helping heroes service, which is supported by SSAFA, the armed forces charity, is just one of many veterans organisations that are providing much-needed support for veterans by providing a one-stop shop. The minister alluded to the need for greater dissemination and promotion of the services that are available. SSAFA’s model stands up to scrutiny as one that is particularly effective, because it operates a one-stop shop that helps veterans to access all forms of practical support in housing, employment, benefits and healthcare, and it signposts them to organisations that can help them with mental health issues. The Scottish Government must prioritise veterans’ mental health, so perhaps utilising those pathways and conduits would be a helpful means of doing so.
The new UK Government has taken steps to improve the lives of veterans, such as extending national insurance relief for employers that hire veterans. I had the opportunity to meet many of them last week at BAE Systems on the Clyde, at the steel-cutting ceremony for the new type 26 frigate, HMS Sheffield. I also met there the veterans commissioner, who served on a previous HMS Sheffield, which was a type 22 frigate—in its case, one that was built on Tyneside. It was a great moment to join veterans who were working on the ship and others who had served on previous HMS Sheffields, including the type 42 frigate that was lost in May 1982, with 20 lives having been lost in that tragic incident.
The Government has also introduced a digital veterans card that will, I hope, promote greater access to Government services. I hope that that is something that the Scottish Government will look into.
I cannot help but notice that we have the same debate yearly, with almost identical contributions. If the Government is serious about supporting the armed forces and veterans community in Scotland, we must have greater time in Parliament devoted to the issues. We are eager to work on a cross-party basis, and we hope that we will not divide the chamber on the matter, but we must do more for those who have done the most in public service of our country.
Maggie Chapman joins us remotely.
14:49
I echo the minister’s comments about the work of the Scottish veterans commissioner and the importance of providing support to prevent homelessness and improve mental health services.
There is no one way of being a veteran. I have spoken in previous years’ debates about the experiences of very young veterans created by the UK’s recruitment policies and those of LGBTQIA+ people during and after their time in the armed forces, as Jamie Greene mentioned earlier. Today, I will speak specifically about veterans in the north-east of Scotland and initiatives that support them.
As with any other group of people, veterans are experts on their own experience and are best placed to understand their own needs, challenges and opportunities. The Veterans First Point network has been developed by veterans and has both veterans and clinicians on its staff. It has six locations across Scotland, including one in Dundee, where it works with statutory and third sector providers to meet the needs of veterans in and around the city. That work includes providing information, signposting to other resources, listening, promoting social networking and promoting and enabling good health and wellbeing.
Veterans First Point notes that nearly a third of its veterans have addresses in areas of the highest levels of social deprivation in Scotland, with only 7 per cent living in areas of least social deprivation. More than 7 per cent are currently homeless, living with friends or in homes of multiple occupancy, with 15 per cent describing their current living situation as unstable, and more than a third have experienced homelessness at some time in their lives.
The Aberdeen armed forces and veterans breakfast club is part of an international network of similar clubs, each run autonomously. They offer social connection, including respite from isolation, help with building and maintaining mental health and wellbeing, assistance with benefits, sharing of information and opportunities, and community engagement. Crucially, the club also provides peer support for veterans in navigating challenges that many share, including post-traumatic stress disorder.
The Dundee Therapy Garden is a local mental health charity that works with military veterans and personnel who are retired from uniformed services. Based on a dedicated site in Dudhope park, the charity provides therapies for people experiencing difficulties, aiming to improve veterans’ resilience and to develop and maintain positive coping strategies. Veterans, along with volunteers and staff, spend time working in the garden growing flowers, fruit and vegetables.
Those three brief summaries tell us quite a lot about veterans in the north-east and the kinds of support that they need. It is clear from the Veterans First Point figures that there is a substantial overlap between veterans and other communities of multiple deprivation and that they share many fundamental challenges in accessing basic human rights, especially those to health and adequate housing. There are also specific needs that arise out of military experience that relate to conflict, violence and the complexity of institutions.
There is no one way of being a veteran. For some, their time in the armed forces was one of fulfilment, camaraderie and the development of lifelong skills. For others, it was an experience of difficulty and trauma, leading to exclusion and poverty. For most, perhaps, it was a mixture of the two. Some veterans wish to identify as part of an armed forces community; some do not. Some wish to talk about their experiences; many do not. Veterans of whatever age are first and foremost human beings, with the fundamental human rights that we all share.
I pay tribute to all those organisations, especially those in the north-east, that support veterans and their families, whether that support is specific to them or extends to the wider community, because we all need one another.
14:54
I am pleased that we are having this debate and that we hold it annually, because it is important that we remember that, as the armed forces shrink over the decades, the number of members of the armed forces who have connections with their communities is decreasing. As our communities’ connection with the institution becomes less strong, it is important that we understand veterans’ needs.
Between 2006 and 2007, I was a member of the House of Commons Defence Committee. At that point, the committee was considering education and the fact that what was provided by the education system did not match the needs of service families. It was also considering mental health. At that time, it was viewed as an outrage that the provision on both those fronts was inadequate across the United Kingdom, and there was a response to that. Today, almost 20 years later, there is a certain mirroring of that debate.
However, there is a danger of us framing all ex-service personnel as being somehow hopeless and helpless. They are far from that. Their skills are rich and varied—they are talented people. Throughout their military service, they adopted a can-do approach in very difficult circumstances, including times of conflict. They made things happen, and those skills are incredibly valuable in today’s workplace. Although we should be debating the issues of mental health and education—and housing, which I will come on to—it is important to recognise that our veterans, as a group of people, are a great asset to our society.
I absolutely agree with what Mr Rennie is saying. Can he foresee us having a facility whereby some of the veterans who have the positive attitude that he described can help schools by inspiring that same positive attitude in many of our youngsters, who often find it difficult to know what their next step will be?
It is important that there is a wide and varied connection between that group of talented people and our education system and beyond. That is why I was pleased that Scottish Land & Estates said in the briefing that it gave us today that it would welcome those people working in its sector. SLE referred to skill shortages and said that it would love to benefit from veterans’ can-do approach. SLE would like veterans to work on the land, because there is a huge skills shortage in that sector. That is the kind of message that I would like to hear from all sectors across the country.
I might regret saying this, but I want to pay tribute to the minister, because I think that he gets this. He probably chose to be the veterans minister because he has a long tradition in this area. He understands the intricacies of the debate and how important it is to reflect on the light and the dark, and the strengths and the weaknesses, of the sector. I am pleased that he recognises the work that needs to be done on the mental health and wellbeing pathway.
I have seen some fantastic work. When I visited Veterans First Point almost 20 years ago, it was encouraging that it was badged not as a mental health service but as a support service. Its approach was that a person could come in and be directed to wherever they needed to be directed to. Of course, many of the needs of the people who came in were mental health needs, but if it had been badged as a mental health service, those people might not even have come through the door. That was a really smart way of approaching the issue.
Combat Stress has a great, in-depth understanding of people who had great trauma in their service experience and of how to turn around their lives. Those former service personnel deserve great credit. They have seen what many of us will never see in our lives, and we should be grateful for the fact that they faced up and did that job on our behalf.
The homelessness prevention pathway is incredibly important, too. That process has taken an awful long time, and it needs to be sped up. I hope that the message that comes out of today’s debate encourages that. The transition from the institution of the armed forces to civilian life is a challenge, so we need to be there for people at that point of transition if they need support.
The final message that I want to send to the minister is about service children. Those children often go from one base to another on an almost yearly basis. I am pleased that, in England, that is recognised with a service pupil premium, which is like the pupil equity funding that we have here. In England, additional support is given to schools that have a high proportion of service children, who need a lot of extra support to ensure that they can get back into the rhythm of education. I have seen the challenges that that poses for schools with a high concentration of service children. They need that extra support.
I hope that the minister can take to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government the suggestion—it was one of our asks in the budget process—that there should be a service premium in Scotland, as there is in England. If we can provide such a premium here, we might help those children at an important stage in their lives.
We move to the open debate.
14:59
When the business programme for this week was published, I asked my office manager whether he thought that I should put my name forward to speak in the veterans debate, given that I had spoken in previous years, and he suggested that it would be a great opportunity to talk about how wonderful he was. I should perhaps clarify that he is an Army reservist, not someone with an overinflated ego.
One of the first things that he did when he came to work with me was to encourage me to sign the armed forces covenant, in my role as an employer. I understand that there was some discussion about whether I could, in fact, sign it. I signed up as an employer, not as an elected representative, which is similar to the way that living wage accreditation works.
Once that was established, the process was easy to follow and I was helped along the way by Ray Watt from the Highland Reserve Forces and Cadets Association. I even went a step further and applied to the defence employer recognition scheme, or ERS, with my office achieving a bronze award. It was an easy process that I would recommend to every one of my colleagues across the chamber. Highland RFCA was incredibly helpful throughout and I am sure that Lowland RFCA would offer just as much support. I am happy to give folk a steer if they want to catch me after the debate. Just this afternoon, the Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body answered a question that I asked about what support would be given, telling me that the SPCB would be able to provide help to members.
The armed forces covenant benefits not just the wider armed forces family, as a lot of workplaces could benefit from it, too. My dad, my granda and my great granda all served in the Gordon Highlanders—at different times, obviously—and I have had the opportunity to work alongside a number of veterans and reservists over the years, so I know that those who have served are motivated and hard working and have experience of being able to work well under pressure. They are great folk to have in your team.
There was, for a while, an idea that veterans needed to be somehow rehabilitated or that it was an act of charity to employ them, but that is absolutely not the case: they are excellent employees. The person who gets the most from employing a veteran will be whoever employs them. That has become even more true in the past few decades. I understand that preparation for leaving the Army begins just about when someone joins. Soldiers, sailors and airmen are encouraged to get qualifications and are given learning credits to use. Many of the wide-ranging skills that they develop in their service are now matched to civilian qualifications, and advice is given throughout their service to help them plan what they will do when they leave the forces.
Overall, our veterans give a lot to our country, not only throughout their service but afterwards. However, there are times when support is needed. The demands of service life can cause difficulties for those who are serving or have left the forces, and for their families. Much of that can be, and is, addressed by the Ministry of Defence, which takes responsibility for many veterans issues. Sometimes, the MOD does not, or cannot, do that, but in any event, it is right that the Scottish Government and local authorities also play their part. It is also welcome that a wide range of charities and businesses add to that support.
I am pleased to support the motion and I agree that veterans and armed forces families should receive the best possible support and access to services.
15:04
I begin by welcoming the debate. As convener of the cross-party group on the armed forces and veterans community, I know that our veterans face many issues, which do not get the parliamentary time that they deserve. Today’s debate has been an opportunity to raise some of those issues and, on behalf of the group, I thank members for doing so.
The cross-party group has made positive progress over the past 10 years, particularly under the tutelage of Maurice Corry, and it has increased the number of organisations in its membership that support our armed forces personnel and veterans and their families. I pay tribute to both the minister and the veterans commissioner for their support and commitment not just to the cross-party group but to the community as a whole.
I agree with the sentiment of the motion, but sentiment alone will not deliver the improvements that our veterans need, so I am grateful to Jamie Greene for raising our proposal for an armed forces and veterans bill. Enshrining the armed forces covenant in law for public bodies would be both a big step forward and the right thing to do, because veterans are up against some very serious challenges. We have already heard about some of those struggles in the debate. Homelessness among veterans has been rising in recent years—more than 900 homelessness applications were made in the past financial year, the vast majority of which were from those who left the armed forces more than five years ago. That hints at the long-term nature of the challenges that veterans can face when they return to civilian life.
We also know that veterans are struggling with mental health issues. In relation to those who were assessed for homelessness in the previous financial year, the stand-out support issue was the need for help with mental health.
There has been some progress on addressing veterans issues, such as through the Scottish Government’s support for the veterans treatment pathway and the NHS Scotland armed forces talent programme, which helps veterans to find employment in the health service. On employability support in general, there has been some important work on the military skills and qualifications discovery tool, the going forward into employment scheme and the civil service guaranteed interview scheme, all of which receive praise in the latest veterans commissioner’s report.
However, I am concerned that the Scottish Government’s commitment is struggling to meet demand. I note that the veterans commissioner’s 2024 report points out the slow progress on delivering the veterans mental health and wellbeing pathway, alongside which the report says that the veterans homelessness prevention pathway has stalled.
There are more than 176,000 veterans in Scotland. Another 10,000 people are employed by the British Army and more than 8,000 will be working at Faslane. Let us not forget veterans’ families, either, who also require support and care, particularly where the veteran is facing challenging times. What are they to make of such setbacks, whether or not they eventually get reversed? They send a worrying signal to the armed forces community, and we need that to be tackled, because we know that almost two thirds of veterans feel undervalued. That is a concerning state of affairs for a group of people who have risked their lives for us. Those men and women have stepped up for their country, and it is time that their country stepped up for them.
15:08
I am privileged to have in my constituency Glencorse barracks, in Penicuik, which is the home of 2 Scots, the second battalion of the Royal Regiment of Scotland, and across the road and up the hill at Milton Bridge there are Army family homes. I have visited both, and I know that the support of families is essential in sustaining the morale of those who are serving. However, partners and families need support, too, and I agree with Willie Rennie on the special circumstances for the children as they move often from place to place.
The first, obvious observation to make is that the term “veterans” embraces many different people, as Jamie Greene mentioned. There are those who have had a short service career; those who were long serving; those who have been on the front line in places of conflict, in combat or peacekeeping, and those who have not; those who live alone; those who live with parents or partners; those with parental responsibilities; those who have suffered life-changing injuries; and those with combat stress—and that list is not exhaustive. One size therefore does not fit all, but there are common experiences.
Our servicemen and women face particular challenges as they re-enter the civilian community. They have lived and worked in a culture of conformity, structure, obedience and rank; of service tours taking them away from family, partners and friends for months on end; of access to housing and health services being provided; and of a guaranteed income. That contrasts starkly with life in a civilian community—being at home in the world of the civilian in which decisions and choices have to be made that, perhaps, were previously made for them. Now they are at home most of the time. They have to make their own health provision, find work and fit in. The comradeship that came with the job may be distant, and they may have to make new social ties.
Often, that is hard not just for them but for their family. A household will have run without them for months on end. Their partner will have made all the day-to-day decisions, so, even when they are on leave, there have to be adjustments all round—which is also true for any children. They have to fit back into a domestic household that functioned well without them. If they have returned from some horror overseas, that must also be factored in.
Funding to provide routes to adjustment helps, as does all the person-to-person support. I note that, from 2021 to 2023, £750,000 was put into supporting work on health, wellbeing and quality of life that was expanded to include all veterans over 60 instead of 65.
I will focus on health, including the Scottish Government’s commitment to better supporting access to and engagement with primary healthcare providers by veterans and their families. The general practice armed forces and veterans recognition scheme opened to GPs across Scotland in November 2023, providing easily accessible training materials. The scheme’s aim was to raise awareness among general practice teams of some of the unique health challenges that veterans and armed forces families face as a result of military service. It is therefore disappointing to learn of the issues with uptake.
I said “unique”. That is a reference not simply to PTSD but to challenges that might seem mundane but are equally important. For example, on discharge, a home has to be found. We have heard of the difficulties of homelessness and GP registration, and the importance of the MOD ensuring prompt transfer of medical records for the veteran and their family,
Mental wellbeing was referenced by the minister. For some, the transition simply does not work. There can be marriage and relationship break-ups, with all the fallout that can be predicted. Some turn to alcohol and, indeed, drugs, which might lead in time to homelessness, criminal activity and even imprisonment.
That brings me to the withdrawal of NHS Lothian’s financial support for Veterans First Point, to the tune of £200,000 or thereabouts. The Scottish Government remains committed to its 40 per cent share. I already raised the matter in an intervention, and I note the meeting that is to take place next week with the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care and the Minister for Veterans.
As the minister knows, Veterans First Point Lothian is a bespoke service that has been jointly funded by the Scottish Government and NHS Lothian as a one-stop shop, offering support, advice and mental health care for veterans. It is a multi-award-winning service that has provided support, including peer support, to more than 2,500 veterans over the past 15 years.
Notwithstanding that meeting, I have written to the MOD to say that, if NHS Lothian remains intransigent about removing the funding, the MOD should step in. It is only £200,000, for goodness’ sake. After all that those men have done in serving to protect us, that is peanuts.
15:13
I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate. In the short time that I have, I will concentrate on Forces Children Scotland, although not because I do not recognise the contributions of all people who have been involved in the armed forces—both serving and veterans. The issue of young people and children echoes what Willie Rennie said in his speech.
Forces Children Scotland was founded in 1815, just four days before the battle of Waterloo, which stands as a pivot point in history and as a roll call for Scotland’s armed forces—the Cameron Highlanders, the Gordon Highlanders, the Black Watch and, indeed, the Scots Guards all served there. History tells us that approximately 6,000 to 7,000 Scottish soldiers paid with their lives at that battle. It is a testament to Forces Children Scotland that it is supporting more than 13,000 children—twice the number of adults who gave their lives at that battle.
I recommend, to all in the chamber and outside Parliament, the Forces Children Scotland report “It’s not just their job, it’s our whole lives”. The children are rarely forgotten in discussions about veterans and serving officers, but sadly their needs are rarely followed through on. I will follow the report in looking at that issue from the perspective of children’s rights—as colleagues across the chamber will surely know, I will never refrain from an opportunity to make reference to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.
At the end of the day, our forces’ children and young people are unique among our children and young people. First, their experiences are very difficult to understand for someone on the outside who has not shared those experiences. Secondly, as we have already heard, they are a group of children who frequently move. They find a great deal of comfort among children who understand their situation, but they can sometimes feel like outsiders.
Will the member take an intervention?
I will.
I am sorry, Presiding Officer—I forgot to press the wee button. Thank you for taking my intervention.
Mr Greene, could you please just start the intervention?
A point that has been raised in previous debates is that the spouses or partners of serving members often struggle to find meaningful employment in the area where their partner is serving, and that can lead them to move away from that area, taking the children with them. Do you think that more could be done to ensure that the families of veterans and serving members are better supported in that respect?
Always speak through the chair, Mr Greene.
I agree absolutely. I welcome that intervention, because it allows me to talk about article 9 of the UNCRC, which is about the right of a child not to be separated from their parent. As an immediate statement of a human right, that can be incredibly challenging to comprehend for an adult who is in charge of armed forces or is responsible for a group of serving soldiers or officers. However, a young person has the right not to be separated from their parents. One of the challenges that forces children face is—obviously—frequent separation from one parent, and sometimes both parents, which for a child leads to a lack of stability and confidence.
There is a call for that to be considered first and foremost when decisions are taken on who will serve and where and how they will serve. Clearly, those are not easy decisions to make. Perhaps in some situations, they are not decisions that are warranted by the value of the expected service that is required. However, for young people and children whose parents are going off to serve, knowing that they have been considered is incredibly important. They will then understand that the adults who are making decisions about their parents appreciate and understand the existence of their children.
In the time that I have left, I want to mention article 18 of the UNCRC, which is on access to childcare and family support. I welcome the Scottish Government’s commitments in respect of those things, particularly family support. However, I would ask that the Scottish Government identify forces children specifically, or forces children and families—to refer back to Jamie Greene’s intervention—as a priority group for receiving such support. That, again, would indicate an intention to support that group and their communities at difficult and challenging times.
I am conscious of my time, Deputy Presiding Officer. I recommend Forces Children Scotland to everyone in the chamber and outside the Parliament. I also recommend that, when we talk about our veterans and our forces, we pause to remember that a significant number of children surround and are woven into the choices that are made about them.
I am grateful for your indulgence.
Karen Adam is joining us remotely.
15:19
I am honoured to speak today on an issue that means a great deal to me and to Scotland. Our veterans and our armed forces community represent courage, sacrifice and service, and their contributions—during and after their military careers—continue to enrich our society in many ways. We owe them not just our gratitude but real support to help them thrive in civilian life. This debate is not just about recognition, it is about delivering the action that they deserve.
Earlier this year, I had the privilege of visiting battlefields and war graves in the north of France. Walking through those solemn spaces, I was deeply moved by the sacrifices that were made by many people, including many Scots, for the sake of future generations. Their bravery leaves us with a debt that we must honour. Regardless of how we feel about the reasons behind any war, we can all agree on the need to support those who stand ready to defend us. Our veterans are not just part of history—they are a vital part of our here and now, enriching our communities with their strength and skills.
In my constituency of Banffshire and Buchan Coast, I am fortunate to know veterans such as David Jarvis, a winner at the Invictus games. David’s story is one of resilience and determination, and he has used sport not just to rebuild himself but to inspire others. Through his efforts, he has shone a light on the challenges that veterans face, particularly in adapting to civilian life, and has shown what is possible when we provide the right support. His work goes beyond his personal achievements. He has become an advocate for veterans, demonstrating how they can excel when their potential is recognised and nurtured. David’s journey serves as a powerful reminder of the talent and strength within our armed forces community, and his example should inspire us all to redouble our efforts to support them.
The Scottish Government has already taken important steps in that regard. Initiatives such as the veterans strategy action plan, the veterans mental health advisory group and the inclusion of veteran status in the census highlight a commitment to addressing the unique needs of our armed forces community. Those achievements deserve recognition, as they reflect the dedication of this Government to ensuring that veterans and their families can access the services and opportunities that they deserve. However, even as we celebrate that progress, we must also acknowledge that challenges remain, and that is why I welcome the announcement that the Scottish veterans fund will this year help to support vital charities with funding of almost £500,000.
The veterans mental health and wellbeing action plan and the development of a dedicated mental health pathway are vital. Veterans deserve timely, person-centred care that addresses the unique challenges that they face, and we must continue to prioritise that area. Veterans Link Scotland, a veterans voice group that brings the lived experiences of veterans to the forefront of policymaking, is a valuable tool in that effort. By listening to those who are directly affected, we can ensure that support systems are accessible and effective.
Employment opportunities are also critical to supporting veterans in their transition to civilian life. Programmes such as the military skills and qualifications discovery tool and the civil service guaranteed interview scheme are excellent examples of how we can help veterans translate their military skills into civilian success. Expanding those initiatives and working with employers to challenge stigma will unlock even more potential within our armed forces community. Veterans bring a wealth of experience and skills to the civilian workforce and, by fostering opportunities, we can ensure that they continue to thrive and contribute to society.
From mental health to employment, the Scottish Government, alongside its partners, is making a real difference. However, there is more to do and, together, I hope that we can ensure that Scotland remains a place where every veteran is valued and supported.
To our veterans, I say this: your contributions matter, and your sacrifices are honoured.
We now move to closing speeches.
15:23
It is a pleasure to close the debate on behalf of the Labour Party and to reflect on what has been a collegiate debate with constructive points made by members across the chamber. Some common themes have come up, including that of the impacts on families. In that regard, I note in particular the comments that were made by the member for North East Fife, Willie Rennie, around education and his experience on the House of Commons Defence Committee, and on how those lessons are still worth learning, as there is read across to the Scottish Government’s policy.
Those concerns were reiterated strongly by my friend Mr Whitfield, a member for South Scotland, who highlighted the work of Forces Children Scotland, which supports 13,000 children across the country—a significant number of young people. In discussions, young people living in garrisons and bases have highlighted the fact that it can be difficult to be honest about any challenges that they face, because camp life is a village in microcosm and word gets around quickly. They do not want to embarrass their parents or to be bullied or victimised, so it can be a challenging environment in which to raise concerns or to reach out for support. Forces Children Scotland does vital work to support forces children in our country, and we need to consider the reality of garrison life. When the Government is considering how we can support the resilience of our defence estates, that might be one factor to bear in mind.
The issue of uptake of general practitioners was mentioned in the context of supporting veterans, as well as some of the concerns around that. I had the pleasure of joining the member for Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale in her constituency, visiting the barracks in Midlothian a year or so ago. She highlighted the issue of the Veterans First Point Lothian funding cut.
I can advise the Parliament that Mr Sweeney took part in all the challenges while I watched from the sidelines and applauded his skill.
The member’s words of encouragement were most welcome, and I certainly did my best to fulfil her demanding heckles from the sidelines.
Nonetheless, the member made a very important point about Veterans First Point, and we need to support such organisations. I mentioned Glasgow’s helping heroes project in my opening remarks as another example of one-stop shops that are critical interfaces for our armed forces and veterans communities.
The member for Aberdeen Donside has a family with an illustrious heritage in the Gordon Highlanders, as she alluded to. She mentioned the role of the RFCAs—the Lowland Reserve Forces and Cadets Association and the Highland Reserve Forces and Cadets Association. Notionally, they are Crown bodies with reporting lines into the Ministry of Defence. I wonder whether they could have a greater role in interfacing with devolved institutions, particularly the national health service, in promoting greater uptake and engagement with veterans and reserves. Perhaps the minister may wish to consider that in his response regarding the strategic defence review.
There is a lot up for grabs. I have spoken to my colleagues in the UK Government and the defence team, including the new Minister for Veterans, the MP for Birmingham Selly Oak, Al Carns, who hails from Aberdeenshire, and, of course, Luke Pollard from Plymouth and John Healey. I am sure that they are all keen to work with the Scottish Government as best they can to advance policy at all levels to support the armed forces, particularly on the issue of recruitment and retention, which I mentioned in my opening speech. That matter was also raised by Mr Golden, a member for North East Scotland, in relation to the uncertainty of service and how we can improve career prospects and avoid unnecessary service leavers. It is important to provide stability in career progression. That was not helped by his Government’s cuts to the armed forces over the years, of course, but we can hopefully turn that around and promote a greater service pathway.
There is much to take stock from in the Scottish veterans commissioner’s annual progress report. I know that she has been taking notes from the public gallery, and I look forward to her feedback on the debate. We note the areas of success, but we also note the critical areas of lack of progress. Let us work together to improve them. Everyone has a stake in that success for the sake of our veterans community.
15:27
It is a pleasure and an honour to close the debate on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, as a representative of Moray in my Highlands and Islands region and as a resident of Moray, an area where I have lived for my entire life, which is home to so many of our veterans.
There are 355 council wards across Scotland. Moray does not just have the top ward in terms of the percentage of military veterans living there; it does not just have the top two—it has the top three. Out of the whole of Scotland, it has the top three wards in terms of the percentage of military personnel. We start off in the Heldon and Laich ward, which is home to RAF Lossiemouth. One fifth of the households in Heldon and Laich have military personnel or a veteran living there. Secondly, the Forres ward is home to Kinloss barracks and, formerly, RAF Kinloss. Thirdly, Fochabers Lhanbryde is the ward that I represented for 10 years on Moray Council. Those are three wards with such a large number of veterans living there. I am grateful that, because of the census, not only are we able to see that in Moray—we have known for a long time about the large veteran population there—but that is now clear to the rest of Scotland.
Susie Hamilton has been mentioned a number of times today, and I, too, welcome her to the public gallery. She wrote in our local newspapers about how good it is that the percentage is very clear to everyone, and she noted the impact that those veterans have in our local community.
Willie Rennie was absolutely right: sometimes, in these debates, we speak about the negatives. Let us ensure that we also speak about the positives.
I know that some businesses in Moray have been set up by ex-forces personnel because they wanted to stay in the area. Others have decided that Moray is a prime location to base themselves because of the expertise that they can draw on from ex-military personnel who served in the army or the Royal Air Force. That is crucial to our local economy in Moray, which is why it was also warmly welcomed by Sarah Medcraf from the Moray Chamber of Commerce.
As we have such a significant veteran population in Moray, I am delighted that it will be the new home to the Erskine veterans activity centre north, which will open later this month at the former Victoria hotel in Forres. I received a great briefing on the centre ahead of the debate. It says that the new facility will be
“a vibrant, welcoming space where veterans can immerse themselves in activities, support services, and a true sense of community.”
Open Monday to Friday from 9.30 am to 3.30 pm, the facility will be
“a dedicated hub for veterans to reconnect with purpose and with community.”
I do not think that I am overstating it by saying that it is one of the most exciting new developments that we have seen in Moray for a very long time. I know that I am not alone in thinking how positive a development it is for the veterans in our area and the wider community.
The briefing finishes by saying:
“In the months and years ahead, EVAC North will become a vital part of the community, a place where veterans can find a sense of purpose and belonging, and where locals can show their gratitude and support.”
That sums it up very well. The people of Moray and the wider community will be very vocal in showing their support.
I had the opportunity, with Mr Greene and some others, to travel to Lossiemouth, in Mr Ross’s region, on one of the P-8 Poseidons, which was a great experience. One thing that struck me was the huge opportunity for economic development that the garrisons present to Scotland. Perhaps we could do more to promote the economic and social potential of those sites.
Absolutely. With others in the chamber, I and many representatives fought as hard as we could, after we lost the RAF base at Kinloss, to make sure that we did not lose another in Lossie. Not only was the base at Lossie retained—which is now a significant footprint for the UK’s defence and the defence of our NATO allies—but we also have the army barracks at Kinloss, which are crucial.
I know that I do not have much time left, but I want to mention the minister’s opening remarks. He opened the debate in a collegiate manner, which is why that tone has continued throughout. He mentioned the previous UK Government, which I thought was welcome and right. Johnny Mercer was the first ever veterans minister to be at Cabinet level and did a power of work in that area. His efforts when he was in government continue.
Willie Rennie spoke about the service pupil premium. We had some money in Moray to spend on that, but the money was withdrawn. I spoke to teachers who could see the impact of losing that support, particularly in schools around Lossie.
Maurice Golden, the convener of the cross-party group on the armed forces and veterans community, gave an excellent speech in which he reiterated many of the points that have been made.
There is a lot more that we could speak about in the debate, but it has been helpful. There have been probing questions for the Government, and there are issues that the Scottish veterans commissioner will take forward. Today, across the parties and as a Parliament, we want to do what is right and best for our veterans, because they gave and continue to give so much for us. Let us get it right for them. We can do that if we work together.
15:33
I thank members for their contributions to the debate. I will attempt to respond to as many as possible in the time that I have available.
Before I do that, I highlight the Government’s attempts to work with the charitable sector across Scotland, because it is imperative that we encourage collaboration between the Government and organisations and across organisations. That is one of the reasons why we are providing £315,000 a year in funding for the unforgotten forces consortium, because that will enable the consortium to work with its partners to provide support to, and improve the lives of, veterans who are aged over 60 across Scotland. I was reminded of that on a visit to its annual conference in Stirling recently.
We continue to fund 14 projects through the veterans fund, and we have provided £456,000 of support in this financial year. The priorities for the fund remain to support projects that provide help to veterans and their families in the face of the cost of living crisis, including early service leavers, and projects that encourage collaborative working across the veterans community.
Earlier this week, I visited the Thistle Foundation in Edinburgh to confirm this year’s allocations, and I heard directly from veterans about the value that they place on the services that they receive there. A few weeks earlier, I was at an event where I was approached by a member of a military wives choir, who wanted to talk to me about the difference that the money that the choir has received from the fund has made to her and her colleagues. That reminded me that the beauty of the fund is that it can have an impact on so many people in so many different ways, and I am proud of the range and scope of approaches that we have taken with regard to applications.
Of course, we can absolutely do more, and I will pick up on members’ contributions in that regard. Jamie Greene led the way by highlighting the lack of progress on the homelessness pathway, and I accept that. I reiterate my assurance that I am working with the Minister for Housing in that respect, and I, like Jamie Greene, expect to see the progress that he called for.
Jamie Greene also referred to incomplete data, and he was absolutely right to do so, because we need that data to address, and to improve our understanding of, some of the challenges. Yesterday, I read the “Health and wellbeing of UK armed forces veterans: Veterans’ Survey 2022” report, which contained a number of stats that touch on Jamie Greene’s ask.
For example, according to that report, more than 75 per cent of veterans across the UK were registered with a dentist and 98.4 per cent were registered with a GP. That surprised me, because we are aware that a number of early service leavers, when they leave the forces, tend not to know how to access a GP. That highlights an issue that arose from the survey, because the report carries with it a health warning—no pun intended—that the survey was self-selecting. We cannot assume, therefore, that it is typical of the whole cohort of veterans, and the information is not broken down into independent countries within the UK. Jamie Greene is right to highlight the issue—there is a lack of data, and we need to do something about that. I would be happy to work with the UK Government to see how we can do that in a collaborative way.
Jamie Greene also stressed the need for appropriate mental health provision. That is why we are developing, at pace now, the mental health and wellbeing pathway, which will ensure that there is appropriate access to services across the whole country.
Paul Sweeney made an interesting point about pressure on serving personnel to terminate their roles owing to issues such as childcare and lack of employment opportunities for spouses. We are all aware of those issues, but that is the first time that I have heard that characterisation of what they are leading to. I undertake to have a look at that, in particular regarding Paul Sweeney’s point about taking account of those issues in a public policy sense. We will take that point away.
Paul Sweeney was also eager that we have more time in the chamber to explore veterans issues. I would be happy to have those opportunities, and if he can help me in encouraging the Parliamentary Bureau to facilitate that, I would be delighted. He also expressed the hope that the Scottish Government would work more closely with the UK Government on some of these issues. My first interaction with Al Carns was encouraging in that regard, although I have to correct Paul Sweeney, as Al Carns is not from Aberdeenshire; he is an Aberdeen boy—a fellow Aberdonian.
Maggie Chapman made a good point about veterans being experts on their own needs. I was very much reminded of that on my visit to the Thistle Foundation earlier this week, when I heard directly from two individuals about what worked for them and what did not. It is imperative that we develop services that reflect those needs.
Willie Rennie’s contribution reminded me of the contributions from his former colleague Mike Rumbles during such debates in the chamber.
I see that Mr Rennie is offended—I apologise for that.
It was all going so well.
In all seriousness, Mike Rumbles, on a number of occasions, quite robustly raised his concerns about there being a postcode lottery in mental health services across Scotland. That was during my first spell in this role—it prompted me to go around the country looking at what was on offer, and he was right. That is what has driven us to try to develop an accessible service across the country, so Mike Rumbles was correct in that regard.
On Willie Rennie’s point about service children, I have to be honest and say that I am not convinced about the case for a service premium, but I am happy to engage with him on it, and I will read the Forces Children Scotland report that Martin Whitfield highlighted in his thought-provoking contribution.
Jackie Dunbar noted that her office had signed up for the armed forces covenant. I encourage all MSPs to consider doing that, although I warn them gently that an organisation is meant to have a minimum of 10 staff in order to qualify for that—if Jackie Dunbar has found a way around that, good on her. I genuinely encourage members to pursue that.
Maurice Golden noted, among other things, the sense of being undervalued that many veterans feel. To that, I would add the sense of being misunderstood, because that is one of the issues that veterans report when they come out of the services. They are concerned about articulating their past, because they think that people will not understand who they are.
On the point that Douglas Ross made in his speech, I hope to visit the new Erskine premises the week after next, parliamentary business allowing.
I am conscious of the fact that I am winding up the debate. I once again thank members for their constructive contributions, and I reiterate the importance of allowing the Parliament the opportunity to scrutinise our support for veterans, their families and the entire armed forces community in Scotland.
That concludes the debate on support for the veterans and armed forces community in Scotland. There will be a short pause to allow front-bench teams to change positions, should they so wish.
Air ais
Point of Order