Official Report 1081KB pdf
The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-14137, in the name of Sarah Boyack, on recognising the UN’s Declaration on Future Generations. The debate will be concluded without any question being put.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament recognises the UN’s Declaration on Future Generations, a document launched in relation to the UN’s Summit of the Future in September 2024; acknowledges the calls urging Scotland to be governed with future generations and their interests in mind; notes the belief that Scotland must commit to playing its part to seize the global opportunity that present generations possess to leave a better future for generations to come, and further notes calls to advance the UN’s Sustainable Development Goals, including in the Lothian region, in order to build strong and resilient foundations to achieve this.
12:49
I thank colleagues for supporting my motion and enabling the debate, and I welcome Alasdair Allan to his ministerial role.
This month, the United Nations will host a summit of the future, which is being described as a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reinvigorate global action. People from around the world will gather together to wrestle with one of the most important questions of our time: what can we do now to build a planet that survives and thrives for the generations that follow us? That is an essential question that every parliamentarian should ask themselves, and it must reframe how we see the way we legislate, the actions that we take and the priorities that we pursue.
As part of the summit, attendees will vote on the Declaration on Future Generations. The declaration’s message is clear: we have a responsibility for future generations. The declaration also stresses the importance of the UN’s sustainable development goals. By prioritising those, we can do the vital work that is needed to protect future generations. The goals call on all nations to work for education, peace, health and wellbeing, to preserve nature, eradicate poverty and establish equality for all. However, we have to work together and use the powers and leadership of our Parliament to deliver the action to make those goals a reality.
Lack of action will have an intergenerational multiplier effect. Mistakes made now will be paid for long after we are gone, but positive decisions that we make today could have a cumulative effect on wellbeing long into the future. We have an opportunity as a Parliament to future proof the foundations of our country and to build wellbeing and sustainability into all our policy and planning. Our every action can be taken with a big picture in mind, and we could leave a remarkable legacy behind.
Scotland will not be alone in that. Increasingly, the whole world is realising the need for global action that plans for a bright and sustainable future. I have seen it working. The inspiring discussions that we had in Vilnius last year at the congress on the future of the world gave me the chance to hear at first hand about the action that is being taken by parliamentarians across the world. We now know that several countries are acting with long-term intergenerational goals in mind. Kenya is developing an intergenerational fairness assessment tool, and we are seeing action in Mexico, Costa Rica and New Zealand. Closer to home, we are seeing action in other European Parliaments. For example, just last year, the Parliament of the Balearic Islands approved a law for the wellbeing of the present and future generations, and, at a European Union level, Ursula von der Leyen intends to appoint a commissioner with responsibilities for intergenerational fairness.
The world increasingly recognises that we have the power to shape the world for the better and to do it for centuries to come, but in Scotland we are not quite there yet, and we are currently missing the opportunity presented to us.
Fantastic work is being done by a range of groups, such as the Wellbeing Economy Alliance Scotland, Scotland’s International Development Alliance and Carnegie UK, and we have a meeting of our cross-party group on wellbeing tomorrow morning. However, an important report that was produced by Carnegie UK highlighted that Scotland is falling behind in integrating wellbeing frameworks. It stated:
“we could not locate a single national policy in Scotland that the NPF has significantly impacted.”
Worse, it also stated:
“Scotland now cuts a diminished figure on an international stage of wellbeing-focussed governments it helped establish.”
The one glimmer of hope that was highlighted in the Carnegie paper was the Scottish Government’s commitment to a wellbeing and sustainability bill that would enshrine in law the requirement to consider those factors across every area of legislation. However, disappointingly, when the programme for government was announced yesterday, the bill was conspicuously absent. That is bad news for future generations and flies in the face of a global movement towards sustainable development. If action is not taken, Scotland will continue to fall behind in legislation that builds a sustainable future.
Colleagues may be aware that I have a solution. My proposed member’s bill on wellbeing and sustainable development has established cross-party support and is in the stages of being drafted. More than 150 organisations pushed hard before the 2021 elections for greater action in this area. The time for action is now. We can embed the priorities of wellbeing and sustainability in everything that we do as a Parliament, and my bill would ensure that that happens.
I know that the Scottish Government has been working on the issue. It is a vital and hugely popular idea. I hope that the Scottish Government will whole-heartedly support my bill because too often we see short-term decisions. For example, using the ScotWind income to plug a gap in this year’s finances is exactly the kind of action that jeopardises future generations.
Scotland desperately needs a sustainable development framework that allows us to tackle deep-rooted problems, including fuel poverty, poor health and lack of economic opportunity. We urgently need joined-up action to tackle our climate and nature emergencies.
Experience in Wales shows that legislation, with a commissioner focused on delivery, can be transformative, giving leadership, security and guidance.
I have been listening to what the member is saying, and I am very much in support of the vast majority of it. She has mentioned a commissioner, and she may know that the Finance and Public Administration Committee has been carrying out an inquiry into commissioners. There is concern that we now have more and more commissioners, and that that could divert money away from front-line services. How would she respond to that?
I go back to my point about the experience in Wales, where the legislation was established in 2016. The commissioner who was established there has not just given leadership but has delivered savings and has enabled cross-government work. That is critical, and we urgently need that in Scotland. It is not just about having a commissioner for the sake of the name; it is about transforming decisions, priorities and funding now, because that will benefit not just future generations but our constituents and our communities now. Let us get on with it.
There is a global opportunity here, colleagues, one that the UN’s Declaration on Future Generations recognises. It is an opportunity to change the future for good. However, I go back to my earlier point. If we delay now and pursue sticking-plaster politics instead of robust action that works for a brighter, happier future, tomorrow’s generations will be the ones who pick up the bill. That is not fair and it is not right.
We have a duty to those who will follow us and, as the United Nations meets to declare its commitment for future generations, let us play our part and deliver the transformation that our world urgently needs.
12:57
I welcome the debate. I thank Sarah Boyack for lodging her motion and for bringing the debate to the chamber. I note the focus in her remarks and in the briefings that we have received in advance of the debate from many stakeholders, on prioritisation, on the history of action on these matters from the Scottish Government and the Scottish Parliament in recent years, and on building a greater wellbeing economy and society here in Scotland. That has included being part of the initial number of countries in the growing wellbeing economy Governments partnership, known as WEGo: New Zealand, Iceland, Finland, Wales, Canada and, of course, Scotland. I remember, during the time when I had the privilege of being Minister for Europe, Migration and International Development for the Scottish Government, speaking with the Finnish Government as it looked to join the group, and it was great to see Finland become part of it thereafter.
In Scotland, we have the national performance framework, which is considered by all areas of government and more widely, and concerns the allocation of resources and how we make progress to build a greater wellbeing economy and society. I think that it should be called the wellbeing performance framework, which would be more accessible. Perhaps, if there is an opportunity for a name change at some point, that might help with the engagement that is happening more widely than the work of the statutory services and stakeholders who are involved every day.
I appreciate the points that Sarah Boyack made about specific legislation and the support for that idea from different stakeholders, including Aileen McLeod, who was a member of this Parliament and of the European Parliament. She has argued that everyone should have the opportunity to live a good and dignified life, both now and in the future, and that we need to think about how we get clarity in a situation with competing goals. That has been on my mind over recent months and years, and it is particularly pertinent in this 25th year of devolution. Here in Scotland and elsewhere in other democracies, we are facing a challenge in the mixture of our political culture and the demands that are facing all societies—including ours—in relation to public sector service delivery, economic competitiveness, climate change and greater global insecurity. The question of how to react to that multi-challenge in a reasonable and considered way that is deliverable for the people we serve is really difficult.
I am open minded about the possibility of legislating, whether through a member’s bill or in the next parliamentary session. However, as is the case in a number of other areas where we have legislated, we need to focus more passionately and more determinedly on the political culture and the delivery of legislation. If we do not change the political culture and set goals that we all agree on rather than seeing everything as a political opportunity, we will not make progress on the really big issues, whether in Scotland or at an international level.
Sarah Boyack talked about sticking-plaster politics. All parties have been engaged in sticking-plaster politics or in calling for such politics. There was a lot of sticking-plaster politics in the reaction to the programme for government yesterday—sweeping statements and criticism, rather than firm ideas for improvement.
The point about short-term versus long-term decisions is important, but the experience of the Welsh commissioner—we are now on to the second commissioner—shows that scrutiny and hard work, and not just speeches in Parliament, are critical. We do not have that approach at the moment.
I take the point. There is also the point about commissioners that was made earlier. More importantly, we can take recommendations from commissioners, have strategies from Government and have law and policy, but our political culture needs to change if we are to address long-term challenges. That is a big challenge for all of us in the Parliament in the 25th year since its reconvening.
13:02
I congratulate Sarah Boyack on securing this debate on the UN Declaration on Future Generations. I also welcome Alasdair Allan to his new ministerial role.
We are all united in wanting to leave a better world for our children. Right now, that can seem a daunting task as humanity faces a multitude of problems, from conflicts and economic uncertainty to climate change and biodiversity loss. I will focus on environmental degradation, not least because it underpins many of the challenges that future generations might face, from resource scarcity and extreme weather to health impacts.
Scotland is already one of the most depleted countries on earth, with an astonishing one in nine species at risk of extinction, according to the “State of Nature Scotland 2023” report. Our economy continues to rely on extracting and consuming new resources. It is just 1.3 per cent circular, according to “The Circularity Gap Report”. We continue to pump out far too many greenhouse gases. The targets for reducing those have been missed in nine out of the past 13 years.
Tackling those issues now would be one of the biggest gifts that we could give to future generations. It is like saving for your child’s future. If you start when they are born, you can watch small efforts compound and grow, but, if you wait until they have grown up, you simply do not have as much time to help them.
The draft declaration makes that point in the preamble, when it recognises
“that our decisions, actions, and inactions today, have an intergenerational multiplier effect, such that our conduct today will impact future generations exponentially, and therefore emphasizing that present generations, carry a responsibility towards future generations to act with their interests in mind”.
If we want those exponential effects to be positive ones, we have to act now. The good news is that we all recognise that fact. I have always applauded the ambition that the Scottish Government has shown on tackling climate change, but ambition is nothing without delivery, and I am afraid to say that that is not happening.
I have already spoken about missed targets, but there have also been missed opportunities. Let us consider the Circular Economy (Scotland) Act 2024. That was our chance to kick-start a truly sustainable economy that would conserve resources for future generations, create jobs and wealth that are not easily offshored and keep us on track to meet our environmental goals. However, the Scottish Government seemed to prefer a watered-down bill that focused on shorter-term goals, such as those on littering and recycling. Both those issues are important, but neither will lead to the long-term structural changes that we need.
The same short-term approach was on display during the past fortnight as the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government cut millions of pounds from climate and nature budgets to plug holes in the overall budget. That approach will just compound problems further down the line, with future generations having to work harder and pay more to deal with them. As it happens, the draft declaration mentions the need for intergenerational dialogue in decision making. I hope that the Scottish Government pays attention to that—the prosperity of future generations depends on it.
13:06
I thank Sarah Boyack for lodging this important motion for debate in the chamber, as well as those across the chamber who supported it. I echo others in welcoming Alasdair Allan to his new position.
The UN’s Declaration on Future Generations asks us all to govern with future generations in mind. It recognises, as we must, that the decisions, actions and inactions of present generations have an intergenerational multiplier effect. The decisions that we make today, along with our discussions, debates and votes, as well as the politicking that Ben Macpherson mentioned, will all affect not only current generations but those that come after them.
I will take some time to talk about the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child. The decisions that any Government in Scotland makes must now, by law, take into account and fully consider the rights of the child. That is an incredible responsibility. The Declaration on Future Generations reminds us that it is not just today’s children whose rights we must consider; we must also consider tomorrow’s children. That calls on the Government and politicians to go beyond short-term decision making, such as raiding ScotWind’s fund to balance the budget. We need long-term solutions, capital investment in the green industries of tomorrow and a national health service that will outlive us. We need to build safe, warm and affordable houses that will last, and we need an education system that meets the needs of our young people and equips them to build a future for those who will come after them. We need real action to get rid of not just the symptoms of poverty but poverty itself and all its roots.
We are quite used to hearing promises of jam tomorrow in lieu of jam today. However, young people have a genuine concern that there might not be a tomorrow. A significant number of them share that fear, which feeds into their learning, their desires and their outreach to politicians about their concerns for tomorrow. Long-term decision making is not popular.
Mr Whitfield makes an important point. Does he agree that we have a collective responsibility not only to hear, register and act on young people’s fears but to work together to give young people in our country and elsewhere a sense that the future can be better and ensure that we take forward policies that will achieve that?
I whole-heartedly agree. There needs to be optimism and hope that there will be a better tomorrow, because there is one.
When taking decisions now, we need to consider the challenges of long-term decision making compared with short-term decision making. Politicians will ask, “What do I need to do to win an election in one year’s time or two years’ time?” rather than ask, “What do I need to do for all of us over the next 10 to 20 years that will bring benefits?” That short-termism—the type of politics that Ben Macpherson was talking about—cannot continue.
However, we have got quite used to hearing that, and we need to change the narrative of the argument. I will finish, therefore, by highlighting what I think is one of the most important lines in the declaration, because it gives us a route map to move away from that approach. It calls on us to recognise
“children and youth as agents of change”
who should
“be taken into consideration in our policy and decision-making processes in order to safeguard the needs and interests of future generations”.
I think that we need to go a step further by not simply recognising our young people as agents of change but facilitating them to be those agents, so that, in the future, as Sarah Boyack said, they are not picking up the bill from today but enjoying what we have paid forward today to benefit them tomorrow.
13:10
I thank Sarah Boyack for bringing the debate to the chamber and for her long-term commitment to this work.
It is hard to take a long view in politics. We often talk about the future of the children and young people whom we know and see, but political timescales tend to tip the balance towards considering the current electorate. However, what of those who are not yet born? The UN declaration urges us to consider them all, as it refers to being
“Cognizant that future generations are all those generations that do not yet exist, are yet to come and who will eventually inherit this planet.”
That is a sobering responsibility, which calls on us to look ahead, not just to 2026 or 2050, or even to 2100, but as far beyond as we can reasonably expect human beings to live here. Of course, the future survival of humanity depends largely on what we do now, so we need a way to assess the decisions that we make now in terms of how their impact on future generations will shape the world to come.
We need to take those responsibilities seriously, not just in politics but in wider society. To a large extent, in comparison with peoples across the earth and across time, we are cultural outliers, in that we do not do that. The UN declaration points that out, stating that:
“many social, cultural and religious or spiritual belief-based practices, as well as numerous national constitutions and legal systems exist, that seek to safeguard future generations and promote intergenerational solidarity and responsibility”.
That intergenerational solidarity—intergenerational equity—is particularly acute in relation to our earth, with its climate and biodiversity, and how we can either co-exist with or extract and exploit non-human nature. As the declaration recognises, that is more important now than ever. It says:
“our decisions, actions, and inactions today, have an intergenerational multiplier effect, such that our conduct today will impact future generations exponentially”.
That exponential impact demands serious informed consideration.
Sadly, such attention has not been a feature of Westminster politics for a long time. The Sustainable Development Commission, which was set up to do exactly that work, was abolished during the Tory-Liberal Democrat coalition’s so-called bonfire of the quangos. It will be interesting to see whether Keir Starmer’s Government chooses to reinstate the commission.
Wales responded to that piece of policy vandalism by passing the bill that became the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015. From Scotland, we have watched the impacts of the 2015 act with interest, and not just a little envy. It took time, of course, for the act to make substantive change—Sophie Howe felt that it took three years for significant progress to be made. Nonetheless, its effects have been real, influencing not only individual decisions but ways of thinking and working. For example, the current Future Generations Commissioner for Wales is working on resources for long-term thinking and is tracing the links from current decisions to their impact on people’s lives as this century makes way for the next.
Another of the ways of working involves identifying a growing movement of individuals, in and beyond public services, who are pushing for change. Of course, that does not always require legislation, as the Dundee Changemakers Hub in North East Scotland shows.
Much of what the UN declaration calls for is happening in civil society, including the recognition of the need for intergenerational dialogue and engagement that is dynamically enacted here in Scotland by generations working together. However, other aspects of the declaration will need Government action if they are to be fully realised. The declaration talks of
“building a strong foundation for sustainable peace, prosperity and the protection of human rights”
as being
“the most effective way to safeguard the needs and interests of future generations”.
That is because intergenerational responsibility is not an optional extra to be added on to democracy and good governance; it should—and must—be at their heart, as a matter of justice, equity and human rights.
13:15
I thank Sarah Boyack for bringing this debate to the chamber. It was inspiring to hear from her about the many international examples and to hear from Maggie Chapman about how intergenerational equity is so embedded in many societies.
I will focus my comments on the practicalities of what we do here at Holyrood. This week, as we have done in every year since 1999, we are scrutinising the Government’s short-term annual policy and budget choices. Much of our work as MSPs is focused on short-term delivery, but there is a pressing need to look beyond the short term—beyond electoral cycles—and towards the needs of not only the current generations but those who have yet to be born.
The big societal challenges of this century cannot be solved with short-term, year-to-year thinking, yet, in our consideration of issues such as hospital waiting lists, there is rarely space to bottom out the long-term preventative policies that could ultimately lead to a better society. That means that we miss the opportunity to make the links between, say, health and transport or between poverty and the environment. In a Parliament that is always driven by the immediacy of crisis, it can sometimes feel indulgent to pull back and start to look at the bigger picture. That is a major reason why, years on from the Christie commission’s recommendations on public sector reform, we have yet to see meaningful progress in areas such as preventative spend. It always feels indulgent to talk about such spend when we come to budget scrutiny in committee.
In that context, having a future generations commissioner for Scotland is essential. Such a proposal was mentioned in the Bute house agreement and was being delivered by my colleague Patrick Harvie. It is good to see Sarah Boyack keeping that flag flying.
As Sophie Howe, the former Future Generations Commissioner for Wales, put it,
“The Commissioner’s role is to take a helicopter view—not necessarily getting into the nitty gritty of problems emerging in the here and now—but offering a longer-term perspective”
and
“joining the dots between issues and organisations”.
The need for guidance and constructive collaborative work right across the public sector has become clear from feedback on and analysis of the commissioner’s work. Does Mr Ruskell agree that we are not getting that, but that we need it urgently?
Absolutely. This is a big piece of work; it is not something that a parliamentary committee can do on its own. There is a need to equip the whole public sector to think in the long term. I know that the Welsh FGC has been focusing on the skills to plan for 25 years ahead.
I have seen at first hand the benefits of having such a commissioner in Wales. Members might remember that, in 2018, I brought forward a member’s bill to introduce a 20mph safer speed limit for built-up roads in Scotland. At the same time, Wales was considering adopting a similar approach, and I was delighted to be part of that Welsh conversation. The role of the FGC in that debate was hugely important, because she was able to draw together the long-term public health case for communities of a speed limit change. That really helped to establish the right basis for moving the issue forward in the Senedd in a cross-party and consensual way, which, with hindsight, and looking back at my member’s bill, perhaps we lacked here at Holyrood.
Of course, later on, there were those who sought to make the roll-out of the 20mph limit a political culture war in Wales. However, now that the dust has settled there, we are starting to see the long-term benefits bed in, starting with huge and dramatic reductions in road casualties on Welsh streets. That is partly down to the work of the public health sector in Wales and the Future Generations Commissioner in leading that debate.
There are many other examples of where that commissioner has been pivotal in driving reform. I understand the Finance and Public Administration Committee’s concerns about the growth in the number of commissioners more generally in Scotland, but there is good practice from Wales about how its commissioner has worked closely with Audit Wales and other commissioners to share staff, reduce costs and maximise joint working. We should learn from that in any review that the Parliament undertakes of our commissioner landscape.
I again thank Sarah Boyack for securing this debate. She reflects our shared priorities to raise the focus of the public sector on the needs of future generations and a sustainable Scotland. I wish her good luck, and I will listen closely to the words of the minister in closing.
13:20
I thank everyone for the nice things that they have said about me in my new job, which is a rare opportunity in which I will happily bask.
I thank Sarah Boyack for lodging the motion and securing today’s debate on the UN’s draft Declaration on Future Generations. This Government recognises the draft declaration and eagerly anticipates the summit of the future this month, so I very much welcome Ms Boyack’s drawing the issues to the fore and bringing them to the Parliament’s attention.
It has been a useful debate and, of course, were Scotland to participate in our own right as an independent UN member state, we would be able to have a much more direct input into the development of UN positions. However, even as a devolved Government, we are committed to ensuring that the interests of future generations are central to our decision making.
The upcoming summit presents an opportunity to renew international commitment to and co-operation on the UN’s 2030 agenda. Scotland remains steadfast in making our contribution to that agenda to secure a safe and prosperous world for future generations, and it is also an opportunity to take up the challenge of long-term thinking that many members rightly highlighted today.
Our goal of a sustainable wellbeing economy seeks to leave a better future for generations to come. We are devoted to the principles of a fair, green and growing wellbeing economy that reinforce our four key priorities. By addressing those priorities now, we are investing in the wellbeing of the future.
Our programme for government reaffirms our commitment to the sustainable development goals, which reflect our common vision for Scotland and beyond. They help us to keep future generations in mind, to work to deliver public services, to protect our planet and to empower people and communities.
Maggie Chapman rightly pointed to the international context. Scotland continues to be active and engaged internationally. That includes contributing to multilateral discussions and programmes on biodiversity, climate change, health, education, human rights and humanitarian crises, including working with the UN and others. The actions that are being progressed in Scotland’s international strategy will further Scotland’s contribution. That includes pioneering global action on climate justice and galvanising international agreement on a loss and damage fund.
Scotland is leading on climate action at home and abroad, including in the global south. That includes leadership roles as president of Regions4 and co-chair of the Under2 Coalition, and collaborating closely with other devolved Governments to progress action, including our world-leading climate justice fund.
As Maurice Golden rightly said, some of our environment in Scotland remains degraded, which is a challenge for us all. When we listen to young people, they can often identify solutions to that and other questions. That includes through Scotland’s Climate Assembly, where contributions through the Children’s Parliament fed into recommendations to ministers, including on legislation to restrict the use of single-use plastic. We continue to engage young people in our just transition plans and the path to net zero. By prioritising climate action, we will safeguard the future for Scotland’s coming generations.
The Government remains dedicated to protecting, promoting and advancing human rights, and to developing ambitious legislation to incorporate more international treaties into Scots law. We have successfully incorporated the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, aligning our nation with UN standards. That develops our commitment to place children who are alive today as well as forthcoming generations of children at the heart of our decision making, as those with the greatest stake in our future.
As Ben Macpherson has emphasised, we are taking concrete steps to eradicate poverty in line with UN commitments, with child poverty being the Government’s top priority. We are progressing action to reach the ambitious targets of the Child Poverty (Scotland) Act 2017, including assigning £3 billion a year to tackle poverty and the reality of the cost of living crisis.
The Scottish Government is happy to continue dialogue with Ms Boyack on her bill. We are staunch in our objective of developing sustainable public health services, including through programmes such as our centre for sustainable delivery and through bolstering preventative support.
As a Government, we will continue to take action to combat numerous inequalities, both in Scotland and in our international development partner countries, to leave a fairer world for future generations. That includes our equally safe delivery plan, which progresses action on the UN priority of eradicating all forms of discrimination and violence against women and girls.
Mr Whitfield highlighted the importance of intergenerational planning as opposed to short-termism and, again, I think that there is consensus in the chamber on that. I have to point out, though, that we face challenges in that respect when the Parliament does not know from year to year what income it has to work with or what it will be allocated. However, we will act, and we do need to meet the challenges of the future.
Mark Ruskell said some wise and challenging words about the difficulties at the heart, perhaps, of democracy, or the difficulty of thinking of the long term in the heat of an electoral cycle or the heat of political events. We need to think about that, and we need to build genuine political consensus on these issues.
In conclusion, the draft declaration challenges this and other Governments to act as a global team player and to strengthen the foundations for lasting action on sustainable development, thereby safeguarding the interests of future generations. As emphasised by the First Minister in the programme for government, we are committed to working across party lines, not least via the declaration, to improve the lives of the people of Scotland and well beyond.
That concludes the debate.
13:27 Meeting suspended.Air ais
First Minister’s Question TimeAir adhart
Portfolio Question Time