The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-13493, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees—
(a) the following programme of business—
Tuesday 11 June 2024
2.00 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Topical Questions (if selected)
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Scottish Government Priorities: Eradicating Child Poverty
followed by Committee Announcements
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 12 June 2024
2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Economy and Gaelic;
Finance and Local Government
followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)
7.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 13 June 2024
11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
11.40 am General Questions
12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions
followed by Members’ Business
2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.30 pm Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Questions
2.45 pm Portfolio Questions:
Net Zero and Energy, and Transport
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Scottish Government Priorities: Investing in Scotland’s Public Services
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
Tuesday 18 June 2024
2.00 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Topical Questions (if selected)
followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill
followed by Committee Announcements
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
9.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 19 June 2024
2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands;
NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 20 June 2024
11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
11.40 am General Questions
12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions
followed by Members’ Business
2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.30 pm Portfolio Questions:
Social Justice
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Gender Representation on Public Boards (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
4.30 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
(b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 10 June 2024, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.—[Jamie Hepburn]
I call Liz Smith to speak to and move amendment S6M-13493.1.
17:42
It is my understanding that, prior to the Presiding Officer’s selection of my topical question yesterday, the Minister for Parliamentary Business had intended to schedule a statement about the recent reports in the media that the Scottish Government would be handing back £450 million of European Union funds that are available for investment projects in Scotland.
Yesterday, in her answers, the Deputy First Minister told Parliament that those reports are untrue and that almost all of the allocated funds will be spent. She added:
“we will endeavour to spend as much of it as possible.”—[Official Report, 4 June 2024; c 3.]
That is hardly the most convincing line about the detail of the allocations of the money.
The Deputy First Minister added that 60 per cent of the available funds had been earmarked for local government investment projects, but there was no detail, nor did she elaborate on the Scottish Government’s acknowledgement that the initial available budget was reduced by €72 million because there had been a lack of demand or a lack of ability to spend the money.
Does Liz Smith accept that the programme still has at least a year to run? If all the money had been spent by now, that would be somewhat dubious, considering that there is still a year left of the programme.
I have spent quite a lot of this morning reading up on the EU rules on this, and I understand what is being asked for, but I remind the Deputy First Minister that the Scottish Government has already handed back €199 million. I am asking for clarity and that is what the rest of the Parliament is asking for. If the Deputy First Minister is saying that the £450 million figure is inaccurate, she must have some idea of what the actual figure is. The Parliament ought to know what that money is and what it has been earmarked for.
I am asking for a statement so that we can be provided with further information and can scrutinise what the Scottish Government is saying on the matter. To come back to the point that I made yesterday, if money has been available, we ought to know about it and we ought to be able to tell local government and all the people who have been involved, for example, in enterprise budgets, exactly where that money is. If we are not doing that, we are not being transparent or ensuring that this Parliament is looking after the public.
I move amendment S6M-13493.1, to leave out from third “followed by Business Motions” to second “5.00 pm Decision Time” and insert—
“followed by Ministerial Statement: Allocation of EU Structural Funds
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.30 pm Decision Time”.
17:44
I rise in support of the appeal to change the business motion for the following key reasons. The first is the quantum of the sums involved. We are talking about hundreds of millions of pounds of funding. Although the absolute figure might be disputed, it is potentially up to around 1 per cent of the Scottish Government’s budget.
We know that many of the figures are a matter of published fact—they have been published by the EU itself. We also know that many of the funding mechanisms are technical and dependent on match funding and other factors.
Finally, there is the matter of timing. Although there is the claim that there is a year to go, there is at the very least speculation that some of those deadlines are looming as soon as the end of June. Given the matter of the quantum, comparison with published fact, the technical nature of the funding and the timelines, I believe that a topical question at the start of this week is inadequate to answer those questions. Parliament needs a statement so that we can interrogate the facts and due to the significant concern and the significant sums of money that are involved.
I call the minister to respond on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau.
17:46
It is the case that I received a request from the Conservative Party to schedule a ministerial statement on EU structural funds for this week. I wrote to business managers to explain that I had intended to schedule the statement as requested but given that a topical question on EU structural funds had been selected and was asked yesterday, I felt that it was no longer required. After writing that letter to all business managers, I received no response from the Conservative Party business manager to my note, nor did he particularly push for the statement when it was discussed in the bureau. Otherwise, we could have discussed the request in more detail.
Is it not the case that, following the topical question, it would appear from the contributions from either side of the chamber that further questions have arisen and that a statement is the appropriate vehicle for the Parliament to hold the Scottish Government to account?
There are many mechanisms and means by which members can do that. I note that Mr Johnson said that the topical question was not enough. I am unaware of whether Mr Johnson—he can get to his feet and tell me now—pressed his button to seek to ask a question at topical question time on Tuesday.
Does the minister accept that sometimes the facts change? When the facts change, so should his position. Does he not accept that, given that further questions have arisen, more questions should be permitted in the chamber?
The fact is that Mr Johnson did not bother to press his button yesterday to seek to ask a question. In the short period in which I have held the office that I hold now, I have sought to be reasonable in responding to requests from other parties. Earlier today, we had a statement on low-emission zones, following a request by the Conservative Party. Last week, we had a statement on industrial action in Scotland’s colleges, following a request by the Labour Party. I brought the timetabling of those requests to the bureau and made sure that those requests could be accommodated.
I say for the record, because the minutes of the bureau do not go into the detail that would allow what was said to be reflected, that I did say that we would reserve our position on the business motion, as we are doing today, if the answers to the topical question were not sufficient. I made that clear at the bureau and I would like that to be reflected on the record now.
I am making the point—I make it again—that I am a reasonable person. If we had had a fuller discussion, we could have considered scheduling the statement. Party business managers can bring such matters to the bureau, and members surely have to entrust those responsibilities to the business managers. Of course, I recognise and respect the right of members to do so, but it is my hope that we will not see continual attempts to amend business that is presented by the bureau for Parliament’s agreement. Those matters have been discussed and agreed by the bureau.
I will, at all times, operate on the basis of seeking to facilitate fair and reasonable requests, just as I had been ready to with the one that was made in respect of EU structural funds.
As I mentioned, there has been a topical question on the matter already this week. Indeed, Liz Smith asked that question, and the Deputy First Minister gave a full answer to her on the issue. The answer was so full that Ms Smith was able to regale us with the details today.
It is very clear that the suggestion that the Government will not allocate £450 million of available EU funding for investment projects in Scotland is incorrect, as the programme is not yet complete. Indeed, partners have always had access to the funding that they requested. Final expenditure figures for that funding will be published and reported to Parliament as soon as they are finalised. I see no reason for scheduling a further statement, which will only reconfirm the position that has now been outlined twice to the chamber in the past two days.
The question is, that amendment S6M-13493.1, in the name of Liz Smith, which seeks to amend motion S6M-13493, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme, be agreed to. Are we agreed?
Members: No.
There will be a division. There will be a short suspension to allow members to access the digital voting system.
17:50 Meeting suspended.
We come to the vote on amendment S6M-13493.1, in the name of Liz Smith. Members should cast their vote now.
For
Baillie, Jackie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Baker, Claire (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con)
Boyack, Sarah (Lothian) (Lab)
Briggs, Miles (Lothian) (Con)
Burgess, Ariane (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Burnett, Alexander (Aberdeenshire West) (Con)
Carlaw, Jackson (Eastwood) (Con)
Carson, Finlay (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con)
Chapman, Maggie (North East Scotland) (Green)
Clark, Katy (West Scotland) (Lab)
Dowey, Sharon (South Scotland) (Con)
Duncan-Glancy, Pam (Glasgow) (Lab)
Findlay, Russell (West Scotland) (Con)
Fraser, Murdo (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Golden, Maurice (North East Scotland) (Con)
Grant, Rhoda (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Greene, Jamie (West Scotland) (Con)
Greer, Ross (West Scotland) (Green)
Griffin, Mark (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Gulhane, Sandesh (Glasgow) (Con)
Harvie, Patrick (Glasgow) (Green)
Hoy, Craig (South Scotland) (Con)
Johnson, Daniel (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Halcro Johnston, Jamie (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Kerr, Liam (North East Scotland) (Con)
Kerr, Stephen (Central Scotland) (Con)
Lennon, Monica (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Leonard, Richard (Central Scotland) (Lab)
Lumsden, Douglas (North East Scotland) (Con)
Mackay, Gillian (Central Scotland) (Green)
McArthur, Liam (Orkney Islands) (LD)
McCall, Roz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
McNeill, Pauline (Glasgow) (Lab)
Mochan, Carol (South Scotland) (Lab)
Mountain, Edward (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Mundell, Oliver (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
O’Kane, Paul (West Scotland) (Lab)
Rennie, Willie (North East Fife) (LD)
Ross, Douglas (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Rowley, Alex (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Ruskell, Mark (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) [Proxy vote cast by Gillian Mackay]
Simpson, Graham (Central Scotland) (Con)
Slater, Lorna (Lothian) (Green)
Smith, Liz (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Smyth, Colin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Stewart, Alexander (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Sweeney, Paul (Glasgow) (Lab)
Villalba, Mercedes (North East Scotland) (Lab) [Proxy vote cast by Richard Leonard]
Webber, Sue (Lothian) (Con)
Wells, Annie (Glasgow) (Con)
White, Tess (North East Scotland) (Con)
Whitfield, Martin (South Scotland) (Lab)
Whittle, Brian (South Scotland) (Con)
Wishart, Beatrice (Shetland Islands) (LD)
Against
Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP)
Adam, Karen (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP)
Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)
Arthur, Tom (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
Brown, Keith (Clackmannanshire and Dunblane) (SNP)
Brown, Siobhian (Ayr) (SNP)
Coffey, Willie (Kilmarnock and Irvine Valley) (SNP)
Constance, Angela (Almond Valley) (SNP)
Dey, Graeme (Angus South) (SNP)
Don, Natalie (Renfrewshire North and West) (SNP)
Doris, Bob (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP)
Dornan, James (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
Dunbar, Jackie (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)
Ewing, Annabelle (Cowdenbeath) (SNP)
Fairlie, Jim (Perthshire South and Kinross-shire) (SNP)
FitzPatrick, Joe (Dundee City West) (SNP)
Forbes, Kate (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP)
Gibson, Kenneth (Cunninghame North) (SNP)
Gilruth, Jenny (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
Gougeon, Mairi (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP)
Gray, Neil (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP)
Harper, Emma (South Scotland) (SNP)
Haughey, Clare (Rutherglen) (SNP)
Hepburn, Jamie (Cumbernauld and Kilsyth) (SNP)
Hyslop, Fiona (Linlithgow) (SNP)
Kidd, Bill (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)
MacDonald, Gordon (Edinburgh Pentlands) (SNP)
MacGregor, Fulton (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
Mackay, Rona (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP)
Macpherson, Ben (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP)
Maguire, Ruth (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
Martin, Gillian (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
Mason, John (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
McAllan, Màiri (Clydesdale) (SNP)
McKee, Ivan (Glasgow Provan) (SNP)
McKelvie, Christina (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP)
McLennan, Paul (East Lothian) (SNP)
McMillan, Stuart (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP)
McNair, Marie (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP)
Minto, Jenni (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
Nicoll, Audrey (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP)
Robertson, Angus (Edinburgh Central) (SNP)
Robison, Shona (Dundee City East) (SNP)
Roddick, Emma (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
Somerville, Shirley-Anne (Dunfermline) (SNP)
Stevenson, Collette (East Kilbride) (SNP)
Stewart, Kaukab (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
Stewart, Kevin (Aberdeen Central) (SNP)
Sturgeon, Nicola (Glasgow Southside) (SNP)
Thomson, Michelle (Falkirk East) (SNP)
Todd, Maree (Caithness, Sutherland and Ross) (SNP)
Torrance, David (Kirkcaldy) (SNP)
Tweed, Evelyn (Stirling) (SNP)
Whitham, Elena (Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley) (SNP)
Yousaf, Humza (Glasgow Pollok) (SNP)
The result of the division on amendment S6M-13493.1, in the name of Liz Smith, is: For 55, Against 56, Abstentions 0.
Amendment disagreed to.
The next question is, that motion S6M-13493, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, setting out a business programme, be agreed to.
Motion agreed to,
That the Parliament agrees—
(a) the following programme of business—
Tuesday 11 June 2024
2.00 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Topical Questions (if selected)
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Scottish Government Priorities: Eradicating Child Poverty
followed by Committee Announcements
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 12 June 2024
2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Deputy First Minister Responsibilities, Economy and Gaelic;
Finance and Local Government
followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)
7.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 13 June 2024
11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
11.40 am General Questions
12.00 pm First Minister's Questions
followed by Members’ Business
2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.30 pm Scottish Parliamentary Corporate Body Questions
2.45 pm Portfolio Questions:
Net Zero and Energy, and Transport
followed by Scottish Government Debate: Scottish Government Priorities: Investing in Scotland's Public Services
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
5.00 pm Decision Time
Tuesday 18 June 2024
2.00 pm Time for Reflection
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Topical Questions (if selected)
followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill
followed by Committee Announcements
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
9.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Wednesday 19 June 2024
2.00 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.00 pm Portfolio Questions:
Rural Affairs, Land Reform and Islands;
NHS Recovery, Health and Social Care
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
followed by Approval of SSIs (if required)
5.00 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
Thursday 20 June 2024
11.40 am Parliamentary Bureau Motions
11.40 am General Questions
12.00 pm First Minister’s Questions
followed by Members’ Business
2.30 pm Parliamentary Bureau Motions
2.30 pm Portfolio Questions:
Social Justice
followed by Scottish Government Business
followed by Stage 3 Proceedings: Gender Representation on Public Boards (Amendment) (Scotland) Bill
followed by Business Motions
followed by Parliamentary Bureau Motions
4.30 pm Decision Time
followed by Members’ Business
(b) that, for the purposes of Portfolio Questions in the week beginning 10 June 2024, in rule 13.7.3, after the word “except” the words “to the extent to which the Presiding Officer considers that the questions are on the same or similar subject matter or” are inserted.
The next item of business is consideration of business motion S6M-13494, in the name of Jamie Hepburn, on behalf of the Parliamentary Bureau, on a stage 1 extension for a bill.
Motion moved,
That the Parliament agrees that consideration of the Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill at stage 1 be extended to 13 September 2024.—[Jamie Hepburn]
Motion agreed to.
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