The final item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-14749, in the name of Craig Hoy, on the findings of the cross-party group on beer and pubs report, “What does ‘Brand Scotland’ mean for the Scottish Beer and Pub Sector?” The debate will be concluded without any question being put.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament notes the publication of the findings of the Cross-Party Group on Beer and Pubs’ report, What does “Brand Scotland” mean for the Scottish Beer and Pub sector?; believes that Scotland should be a highly desirable country to live, work, study, visit, trade and invest; understands that the Scottish beer and pub sector contributes significantly to Brand Scotland; welcomes the inquiry carried out by MSPs, who took written and oral evidence from a wide section of witnesses, including breweries, pub operators, trade groups and research organisations; understands that witnesses told the inquiry about the dynamic and vibrant contribution that the sector makes to communities and the economy across Scotland, including in the South Scotland region, with over 100 breweries and 4,340 pubs employing 65,000 people and contributing £1.8 billion in wider economic benefits; notes what it sees as the largely unacknowledged and unique benefits that Scotland’s pubs and breweries provide, including preventing social exclusion, boosting tourism, supporting local festivals, music, arts and sport, and acting as a catalyst for local events and charity fundraising; further notes, with concern, reports that Scotland’s pubs are closing at a faster rate than elsewhere in the UK, with investment being diverted as, it understands, a lack of certainty makes it difficult to plan ahead, including as a result of regulatory proposals, complex and time consuming planning processes, employment challenges and business rates; notes that the report calls for a new hospitality strategy that aligns with Brand Scotland, which includes a review of business rates, the promotion of employment opportunities and a recognition of the need for a period of regulatory calm, and which should be developed in partnership with the sector, trade representatives and the Scottish Government, and further notes the calls for MSPs to commit to implementing these changes for the social and economic wellbeing of the Scottish hospitality sector.
17:02
Apologies for being slightly pre-emptive there, Presiding Officer—I was keen to let everybody get out for an early pint.
I thank those members on all sides of the chamber who supported the motion and all those members who join me now to discuss what is a very important topic, in particular ahead of the Scottish Government’s budget announcement tomorrow. I also thank the secretariat and the membership of the cross-party group on beer and pubs, and the supporting groups, for their support for, and engagement in, the production of the report that we will discuss today.
As convener of the cross-party group, it is great for me to have the opportunity to share some of the findings of our report, which focused on what brand Scotland means for the beer and pub sector. I will largely speak to the report, but I will also refer to my party’s policy and to some personal views that I hold about the future of the sector.
The pub and hospitality sector is vital to the Scottish economy. For example, the gross value added from the beer and pub sector alone is £2.3 billion, and the sector supports more than 65,000 jobs across the country. There are more than 100 breweries and nearly 4,500 pubs in Scotland. As part of my party’s save Scotland’s pubs campaign, I have now undertaken to do a brief tour of Scotland to visit a pub and pull a pint, or pour a dram, in a village, town or city in every Scottish Parliament region in the coming weeks.
Pubs are vital places for people to socialise and meet. They generate a sense of community, and they have significant wider social benefits. They create social benefit, including supporting cultural events such as open mic nights, quizzes, storytelling events and other social and professional occasions. It is not just the arts that are supported—many grass-roots sports teams are supported, both financially and otherwise, by the sector. Across the UK, pubs raise more than £40 million for grass-roots sports every single year.
If members were to go to the Victoria Inn in Haddington, in my region, they would see at first hand how much support the local publican, Craig Douglas, and his team give to Haddington Athletic Football Club on a match day—Craig is a great friend to the Hi-His. If members have not been to Haddington recently, I encourage them to visit to see Craig’s Christmas lights—in fact, they can probably be seen from Edinburgh. Nevertheless, I recommend that members visit the Victoria Inn and have a pint with Craig and the team there.
Pubs are places where people meet—where someone who has no one else to talk to might go to find a listening ear, and perhaps to get the only hot meal that they might get in the course of the day. Pubs are places where people can sit in the warmth when their house may be freezing cold; where friends can chat and new friends can be made; and where people can play games and gather for any other occasion—some very happy occasions, and some sad occasions, too.
In addition, pubs release £9 in additional social benefit from every £1 that is invested in pub is the hub projects.
All that plays into three key themes that our report has identified. It finds that pubs are great places to trade with, visit and work in, and they are important in making a place to live. In my own village of Gifford in East Lothian, one of our two pubs, the Goblin Ha’, has closed for the second time in 12 months. I have urged and encouraged the holding company, Iona Pub Partnership, to engage with the community, which is rightly concerned about the loss of that asset.
Some pubs are heritage pubs—they are vital to the community and an intrinsic part of the fabric of both the place and its people. That is true not least for the Goblin Ha’, which occupies almost two thirds of the main street in the village. Its closure, therefore—like the closure of many village pubs across the United Kingdom—is felt more widely and more severely by regulars and by visitors and residents. In that case, I would be happy to engage with the local community and with the holding company to ensure that the pub is not lost.
Personally, I believe—and there has been legislation to this effect at Westminster—that pub ownership companies have a special responsibility to protect heritage pubs. Where no tenant can be found or where the premises run the risk of lying empty for a considerable period, there is merit in making the case that the holding companies should not simply retain the buildings and the asset for long periods when there are other practical and viable options, such as a sale to the community, or where an owner-manager can be found, provided that there is no change of use.
When we took evidence for our report, some key themes kept cropping up. Publicans and industry experts all felt that the sector was essential to brand Scotland, because of those core themes. They understand what the pub sector means to brand Scotland. Three quarters of visitors who come to Scotland visit a Scottish pub and drink a local beer—those businesses know the value of their exported products, and they are a critical cog in the wider brand Scotland machine and in the Scottish economy.
The report cannot stress enough the importance of the sector, not only to brand Scotland but to Scotland as a whole, and to the communities that these pubs serve. That is often something that goes unrecognised and unappreciated, and it is a shame that the sector is repeatedly targeted by taxes and is sometimes stigmatised as a bad thing for Scotland, when, as the report repeatedly mentions, it is in most instances—in almost every instance, in fact—the opposite.
I implore the Minister for Business, ahead of the budget, to think about that. There has been a sense that the sector has been left out in the cold by a Government that those in the sector hoped would have their back during the very tough times that we have recently seen. Given the deposit return scheme, the consultation on marketing and sponsorship and the lack of rates support, many pubs are now looking—
Will the member give way?
I will give way on that point.
I thank the member for giving way, and I think that he knows what I am going to say, because it is why I, as a member of the cross-party group, dissociated myself from the report. I agree with almost everything that he has said up to now about the value of pubs. Would he accept, however, that some are packed out and are very profitable, and do not need business rates relief, whereas others might need it?
I accept that, but, as Mr Mason heard during the inquiry, many pubs that appear to be very busy and are packed out still have significant pressure on margins, and a busy pub is not necessarily a profitable pub. We heard that repeatedly during our evidence taking.
That is why the closure rate for Scottish pubs—sometimes iconic Scottish pubs—is now twice the rate in the rest of the UK. That should be a significant concern both for the UK Labour Government and for the Scottish National Party Government. Pubs can be part of the growth story of our country, but when they close, they are, in many instances, unlikely to reopen.
That is why pubs now need a shot in the arm, and why the UK budget’s increase in the employer national insurance contribution is concerning to the hospitality sector, as is the Scottish Government’s failure to date to pass on the rates support relief that it has been getting from the UK Government for the past three years—although I am always hopeful, and it may yet finally pass that on.
The CPG’s report is a solid piece of work, and if the minister and members have not yet read it, I encourage them to do so.
My party’s submission to the budget tomorrow calls for 100 per cent rates relief to be passed on to Scotland’s pubs and restaurants this year. We have all heard stories of pubs that are struggling or closing in our areas, and I ask members to imagine what 100 per cent rates relief for next year alone could do—it would be transformative.
In closing, my message is that we must support the industry, because once pubs call last orders and close, they simply do so, in many instances, for good. They do not reopen, and everything that they offer is lost from now into the future. We owe it to the pubs in our constituencies to visit and support them, and to support those who work in them and the communities that benefit from them. If we come together, we can save Scotland’s pubs, and that is what we should be doing as we pull together over the festive season.
Thank you, Mr Hoy—I wish you well with your selfless pub tour of the country in due course. We move to the open debate.
17:10
I pay tribute to Craig Hoy, and to the cross-party group on beer and pubs and the stakeholders who have supported it in its work.
I do not know that I could choose just one pub in Edinburgh Northern and Leith, but I can give members plenty of recommendations. There is a plethora of wonderful pubs and bars in my constituency, which I will say more about shortly.
With regard to the Goblin Ha’, I have very fond memories of doing a charity walk 20 years ago from Edinburgh to London, and spending some time in Gifford on day 2, so I wish those who are involved with saving the Goblin all the best—from memory, it is a great place.
Like every other member in the chamber, I recognise the importance of pubs, bars and breweries for our communities, not just by their being there but through what they do locally. I will say more in a minute about the breweries’ engagement in that regard.
The points that have been raised about employment are important. The figure of 65,000 jobs across the country was quoted. Every one of those jobs is not just about the economic activity for that individual or the GVA that is produced, or the vibrancy that the business brings to the community. For many of the people in the beer and pub industry, it is a career, and an important area of expertise. In my view, it should be valued more highly in the UK in the way that it is on the continent, for example, where working in hospitality, as a bartender or in a restaurant, has more prestige. Those jobs can be very skilled and knowledgeable, and we should value those skills and that knowledge.
Equally, for a lot of people, the work can be transient, and that is an important aspect of our economy and our workforce. I think back in my own career to the time that I spent working behind a bar, and how many skills from that time I bring to this job. My interpersonal skills were developed in that trade, and I learned about teamwork, productivity and practical working systems. All those things can be learned while working in the hospitality industry, and we should not underestimate the effect that that has on individuals.
The motion rightly states that
“pubs and breweries provide”
a range of benefits,
“including preventing social exclusion, boosting tourism, supporting local festivals, music, arts and sport, and acting as a catalyst for local events and charity fundraising”.
In Edinburgh Northern and Leith, which I have the privilege of representing, that is absolutely the case. It applies not only to specific pubs and bars but to the five bigger breweries—there are some micro breweries, too—run by Pilot Beer, Cold Town Beer, Campervan Brewery, Newbarns Brewery and Moonwake Beer Co. All those breweries undertake excellent collaborations with local festivals, and some of them have created festivals, too. They also engage with charities, either by supporting or collaborating with them or through some of their sales going to charity. On Friday, I was at Campervan’s taproom at an event that it was holding to raise money for the local Citadel Youth Centre, which I mentioned in Parliament last week.
That is evidence of the real collaboration that these organisations create and engage in. The importance of that engagement should not be underestimated in respect of the Scottish hospitality sector’s impact in urban and rural Scotland, and what it brings for both locals and visitors.
Smaller breweries, pubs and bars are important in helping local small to medium-sized enterprises to grow. When people talk about and perceive the alcohol industry in Scotland, in its widest sense, they often think about the big companies but, actually, so many of the businesses working in the sector are small. That is why we need to be very careful when we think about regulation and policy.
I commend the work of the CPG and look forward to hearing the minister’s response.
17:15
I congratulate Craig Hoy on securing today’s debate. He convenes what is probably the most popular cross-party group in the Parliament—it does not struggle to get members to attend its meetings. That is possibly because many of its meetings are held not in the Parliament but at other venues—let us put it that way—that have certain attractions. Another attraction is that we get to spend time with Mr Hoy. I was pleased to hear that he will be doing a tour of Scotland and will be coming to my region. If he lets me know the kind of establishment that he likes to frequent, I am sure that we can line something up.
Presiding Officer, you may have seen pictures of a number of my colleagues pulling pints over the weekend. I was not one of them, as I was busy this weekend. However, I have quite a history in the licensed trade. My grandparents ran working men’s clubs in the north of England. When I first started work as a journalist, I lodged in a village pub. What a great place for a young journalist to be—a pub! Pubs are where we got most of our stories. It was then that I developed a love of real ale, which I have had ever since.
I recently went to a very well-known music venue in Glasgow and, much as I enjoyed the music, I was left somewhat traumatised after having a very bad pint of beer. It was probably one of the worst pints that I have ever had and I am still suffering the taste—I can taste it now. It was really bad, but it also reminded me of why I love real ale and good pubs as much as I do.
There are some good independent brewers and small breweries out there. I look forward to visiting one of the brewers in my region, the Outlandish Brewing Company, which is in the Motherwell area, and perhaps sampling some of its products such as Beamer, Belter, Sonsie and Swally—great names. I look forward to having a go at some of those.
I think that the report is excellent and it is an example of what cross-party groups should be doing. It shines a light on the value of the sector. It is not just about figures, although there are some really good figures; in my region, there are 346 pubs that support nearly 5,000 jobs. The sector’s total GVA is £180 million. I could go on. It is a really valuable sector. However, as Craig Hoy said, when it comes to pubs, and local community pubs in particular, the important thing is what they give to the community.
I am enjoying the member’s speech. Does he accept that there should be a focus not only on real ale and beer, but on several other drinks? Scotland has a burgeoning interest in the gin market. Some excellent new distilleries around Scotland are doing a huge amount for the sector. As well as focusing on beer and real ale, it is important that we recognise the power of the pub in promoting those other drinks. When it comes to women, more of us prefer those other drinks to beer.
Liz Smith is absolutely right about that. The report that we are talking about is from the cross-party group on beer and pubs, but pubs offer so much more than just beer. Gin is a great example—there are some fantastic local gins being produced in Scotland—and, of course, we cannot forget about whisky, which is so vital to the Scottish economy.
I have spoken for five minutes, but I could speak for a lot longer because it is such an important topic.
I call Douglas Ross, to be followed by Daniel Johnson. You have around four minutes, Mr Ross.
17:21
I congratulate Craig Hoy on securing the debate today, on his work as chair of the cross-party group and on everything that he has done with the report.
I have always thought that Craig Hoy had the look of a local pub landlord. In an alternative career, he would be very comfortable behind a bar. We find out tonight that he has been training for that new career by travelling around the parliamentary regions and pulling pints. I have to say to Craig Hoy that he is not going far enough—there are only eight parliamentary regions, but there are 73 parliamentary constituencies, and I am sure that he would be welcome in all of them, including yours, Presiding Officer. When Mr Hoy spoke, I was thinking that, if he came to the Highlands and Islands, or even to Orkney, he could perhaps go to the Pomona Inn, which I used to frequent in my young farmer days. It was a great pub, and many local people would go there. I remember going there for a young farmers event. The clock had a great habit of pausing before closing time, which meant that time drifted—I should say that that happened under a former owner rather than the current owners.
That is the spirit that you get in a community pub, and sadly, that is being lost in many areas because so many of those pubs close and then do not reopen. That is why it is important that the Parliament and the Government do as much as they can to support our landlords and to support those pubs, which mean so much to the communities that they serve. When they are lost, it is a loss to local employment, the local economy and the local area.
Liz Smith made a valid point in response to Graham Simpson: pubs serve more than just beer. As someone who represents, as the minister does, an area with so many Scotch whisky distilleries, I know that a lot of people go to their local pub to have a dram. It is right that, when politicians support this sector, they do not just pull a pint of bitter or lager but perhaps serve a glass of whisky, a measure of gin or whatever their favourite tipple is, because the amount of whisky consumed in pubs is also extremely important. The whisky industry provides a lot of employment in my region.
Another area that I want to talk about is small local brewers. Moray is very blessed to have many great companies, but I want to mention one that, sadly, is no longer in operation. Windswept Brewing was a great success for Nigel Tiddy and Al Read, who set it up. They had very successful careers in the Royal Air Force and wanted to stay locally in Lossiemouth. They set up Windswept Brewing, which went from strength to strength and won numerous awards for its beers. They set up a tap garden, which then became a four-star visitor attraction. Sadly, rising energy and material costs forced them to close the business earlier this year. It is a very sad reflection of the state of some of those businesses that, despite all its successes, Windswept Brewing could not compete with the high energy costs. So, we lost a great local business that, at its height, employed 12 people and, towards the end, was still employing five people. That situation had a huge impact on the local community and on a brand that did well not just locally but nationally.
Finally, Craig Hoy made a point about our party’s policy, which is absolutely crucial. Our pubs and hotels have been through so much. In the Covid pandemic they were some of the first places to close their doors and some of the last to reopen and, since then, there could have been more support from both the Scottish and the UK Governments for the sector.
Tomorrow, the Scottish Government has an opportunity to get back on side with the beer and pub sector—finally—and to provide the 100 per cent rates relief that will make a huge difference to it.
I know that John Mason is no longer in the chamber, but I completely disagree with his point. He cannot just look through a window or open a door, see a busy pub, and assume that it is profitable. There are so many costs behind the scenes that it is not simply the case that if there are more people going through the door, a pub will be making more profit. It is far more complex than that. They need our support.
Does Douglas Ross agree that, because of the change in employment legislation, the hospitality industry will need—rightly—to pay higher wages, which, although it is for a good reason, will put additional pressure on the margins around which the businesses have to navigate?
That is my point. There are so many different pulls on the hospitality sector: businesses are paying more in wages, for energy and for the stock that they buy in. They cannot possibly pass all of that on to the customers, or the customers would not turn up. They are being pulled in so many directions. I know that it would be helpful if they could get some support from the Scottish Government, which is why that is a key pledge of the Scottish Conservatives.
I know that you are about to call last orders on my speech, Presiding Officer—I cannot believe that no one else has used that line in this debate.
I reiterate my thanks to Craig Hoy for bringing this matter to the chamber. It is an important issue. I hope that, in the budget tomorrow, we can support the hospitality sector.
Thank you, Mr Ross. I confirm that the Pomona Inn has indeed reopened under new ownership. I think that the new owners would want me to point out, notwithstanding parliamentary privilege, that the clock in the bar does in fact keep normal time—it does not stop just before last orders.
17:27
We all know that politics can be an unpredictable business, full of setbacks and disappointments. This is a timely debate because, just the other week, there was a stall in the garden lobby of the Parliament representing independent brewers.
It is to my deep regret and huge disappointment that the Edinburgh Southern constituency has a grand total of zero independent breweries, so I am pleased that Craig Hoy has not just secured this debate but launched an excellent report, because I hope that its recommendations can rectify that problem. I commend him on his selfless commitment to the cause, in undertaking the grand pub crawl—I mean, tour of pubs—across parliamentary regions. Truly, he is a martyr to the cause.
It has already been mentioned that the report is a really excellent bit of work. Graham Simpson was absolutely correct about that. We have a huge range of cross-party groups in Parliament, and some of them are less well attended than others. It is excellent to have one that is well attended and that also produces a report with some serious commentary about both the immediate steps that the Government can take and also broader policy steps.
I am also pleased to see the way in which the report has approached brand Scotland. All too often, when brand Scotland is discussed, it is as a marketing line, a strategy, or just something that we say about Scotland. However, brand Scotland must go much deeper than that. It must provide insights about things that we have that are unique and that we can sell to the world, such as our distinctive experience and geography, and areas where we can provide experiences that no other places can.
At the heart of the report, there is that deep insight that there is something distinctive about brewing and pubs that we can build upon in Scotland. If brand Scotland is to mean anything, it must be about finding such insights and seeking policies that can help to develop them.
Pubs in particular are part of the culture of this country. If you were to ask people from overseas what things are distinctive about the British Isles—and Scotland in particular—I think that one answer would be brewing and pub culture. When tourists come to Scotland, they want to experience pubs—they want to drink Scottish beer in Scottish pubs.
It is vitally important that we think about how to support that—not just for the sake of our local communities but also for visitor experience and tourism. The report does an excellent job of setting out precisely all of the social benefits that pubs can provide, including for employment and as places for communities to meet.
One suggestion that I have for the group in its future work is to consider whether brewing, in particular, could be an area for further exploration. As has been mentioned, we have one huge, enormous asset in food and drink in Scotland: whisky. We produce 1.5 billion bottles of whisky a year in Scotland. We export 43 bottles of whisky per second. We are hugely blessed to have a drink category that is synonymous with this country. Our challenge is to look at other food and drink categories that we can promote. Many other countries lay claim to beer so they might not thank us for trying to give it the same level of synonymity with the country as whisky, but perhaps we can push brewing on to another level so that Scottish beers can carve a niche for themselves. There are many reasons to think that we could do that.
Important points have been made on business rates—Craig Hoy made his points well, although Scottish Labour would not go quite as far as his party does—and some of the benefits of business rates discounts could be extended. Just to address Mr Mason’s point, I note that those discounts are capped.
We should also think about how we can help to develop a genuine brewing cluster in Scotland, what we can do to help develop skills and education, and how we can help investment and innovation efforts in the brewing and distilling sectors. Obviously, the brewing and distilling institute at Heriot-Watt University already does great work, but what more can we do?
I put those questions to members as I sit down and close—to abuse the joke, last orders have definitely been called for me as well.
17:31
I thank Craig Hoy for bringing the members’ debate to the chamber.
Like Graham Simpson, I have roots in the hotel and licensed trade. My family has been in the industry for more than 200 years. My uncles and my cousins have owned and managed hotels and pubs across the country, including the King’s Arms and the Imperial hotel in Castle Douglas; the Waverley hotel, which is just up the road from Emma Harper’s home, and the Spread Eagle inn in Dumfries; the Buccleuch Arms in St Boswells, which is now owned by the husband of our colleague Rachael Hamilton; and— until only a few weeks ago—the Kings Manor hotel in Edinburgh and the Pitbauchlie House hotel in Dunfermline.
Groucho Marx once remarked:
“Marriage is a wonderful institution, but who wants to live in an institution?”
It is fair to say that the beer and pub sector in Scotland is also a fine institution, which plays an important role in defining our national identity, whether that be on an economic or social basis.
The social value of the sector in bringing people and communities together, while supporting wellbeing and social inclusion, cannot be lost or downplayed in any way. Pubs up and down the country form the very fabric of many of our lives. You do not need to drink alcohol to appreciate the benefits that pubs and hospitality businesses bring to rural and urban communities alike. They bring people together, which is good for our personal mental health, and more often than not, that leads to social events and festivals being organised at a local or national level, which, in turn, is good for our visitor economy.
However, the headlines from Heineken and the Marmalade Trust’s recent research make stark reading, with half a million older people going at least five or six days without seeing or speaking to anyone at all. More than one million people aged 65-plus in Scotland—around two fifths of all older people, which is 3.9 million in total—say that television is their main source of company. Therefore, it is hardly surprising that 64 per cent of respondents to Heineken’s open arms survey said that pubs were one of the main places they go to socialise, with many expressing that a brief conversation in a pub can alleviate solitude.
The beer and pub sector makes a considerable economic contribution to Scotland. According to the most recent report, the sector generates £2.3 billion in GVA contributions to the gross domestic product and employs more than 65,000 people, who are paid £1.2 billion in wages. Of course, it must be remembered that such activity has contributed significant tax revenue—totalling £1.4 billion in 2022 alone—to the Exchequer. What cannot be ignored is that the sector provides employment opportunities for young workers—nationally, 22,000 people between the ages of 16 and 24 are employed. Working behind the bar or serving up food are many people’s very first jobs.
The brewing and pub sector is a dynamic part of the economy in my constituency of Galloway and West Dumfries. There are a total of 126 pubs in my patch. Although I am the first to admit that I have not visited them all, I am trying my best—please trust me. I know that 573 people are employed in those pubs, and there are four local breweries, including the Five Kingdoms Brewery, based at the Isle of Whithorn, one of whose products was recently named the champion bottled beer of Britain in the prestigious competition organised by the Campaign for Real Ale. The business has been fronted by Alastair Scoular since 2015 and has gone from strength to strength.
Knowing and recognising the importance of the sector is one thing, but helping it to grow should be one of the key objectives of brand Scotland. It is worrying to note from the cross-party group’s report that Scotland is not viewed as attractive for new investment by some businesses. Uncertainty around the promotion and advertising of alcohol by the SNP Government has not helped, while the current licensing and planning regime is often difficult to navigate and is time consuming. I whole-heartedly agree that there needs to be a cut in business rates in the short term while every effort is made to reform them in the longer term.
My colleague Finlay Carson mentioned brand Scotland. Does he think that brand Scotland could consider the inclusion of women in some marketing and social media advertising? A recent report from the OurWhisky Foundation said that there are 228 per cent more pictures of men than pictures of women posted on whisky brands’ social media—specifically Instagram.
I can give you the time back, Mr Carson.
The member has now put that on record. I am absolutely sure that advertising agencies know exactly where the best bang for their buck is, but I take the point that she raises.
More needs to be done to support Scottish products, including promoting more local beers, especially in rural areas, because we rely heavily on the tourist trade. I believe that the role of pubs in local and rural communities should be championed, especially given the pressures being placed on them in recruiting and retaining staff.
The cross-party group’s report highlights the significance of brand Scotland for the Scottish beer and pub sector. The sector has a significant economic, cultural and social impact, as we have heard this evening. The report also identifies challenges such as high business rates, regulatory uncertainty and staffing issues. We need action on the recommendations in order to develop a hospitality strategy to support the sector’s growth and integration with brand Scotland, as well as making progress on regulatory reforms, the promotion of local products and improving employment conditions in rural areas.
We should raise a glass to our pub and beer sector and offer every encouragement, especially financial, to help to keep it alive in the future.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, for the extra time and the lock-in in the last minute.
You are trying to get me into trouble, Mr Carson.
I now call Richard Leonard to respond to the debate. You have around seven minutes, minister.
17:37
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer, but this is Richard Lochhead, the minister, who is about to respond on the Government’s behalf.
I thank Craig Hoy for bringing the motion for debate before the Parliament. I also thank the cross-party group on beer and pubs for the work that it has done on its inquiry and for producing the powerful report to which the motion refers—and which I, as minister, have read in preparation for the debate.
As others have done, I wish Craig Hoy well with his pub tour of Scotland’s eight parliamentary regions. I suspect that, if that is a perk of being in the cross-party group, the group’s membership is about to rocket. Like others, I will happily offer any recommendations for pubs and bars in my area of Moray, including Elgin, where I live, if he so wishes. When he visits the Highlands and Islands, I hope that he chooses to visit Moray.
A couple of years ago, I read in a book about the history of Elgin that there used to be something like 60 breweries in Elgin alone. The industry has evolved and changed over time. This is perhaps a good opportunity to say that it is important to remember how appropriate it is that we are debating the issue in the Scottish Parliament building here at Holyrood, because this is on the site of the former headquarters of Scottish & Newcastle. That is another link with this evening’s debate.
I have fond memories of my time as food and drink minister, when I supported the development of Scotland’s craft beer sector. I think that there are now 140 or so craft breweries in Scotland, and there has also been an expansion of the gin sector, while the whisky sector is thriving. Like other members, I welcome the mention of the fact that pubs also sell Scotch whisky. When I go into a bar or pub these days, the first thing that I look at is the row of whisky bottles behind the bar, to see what is there. That is of course a major feature of Scotland’s hospitality sector.
The minister is right to mention the number of small independent brewers, which has gone up over the decades. However, the trend now seems to have reversed—for instance, this year alone, there has been a net loss of 94 small independent breweries in the UK and 13 in Scotland. Is that a concern to the minister?
I can give you the time back, minister.
As I said, the sector evolves and changes. As the member explained, the small reduction in the number of independent breweries has happened throughout these islands, not just in Scotland. What is important is that, if we compare the current position with where we were 10 or 15 years ago, we will see that there are a lot more craft breweries in Scotland, which are taking advantage of consumers’ desire to know the provenance of the food and drink that they purchase and consume.
The evidence from all the surveys is that customers and consumers—particularly international visitors to Scotland—will pay a premium for the provenance of craft beers, other alcoholic drinks, spirits or food because of the story that that tells. We should continue to exploit that opportunity, and many companies in Scotland are doing that. I recognise the member’s concern, but we should look at the bigger picture of what has been happening over the past few years.
Scotland’s pub and brewing sector is undoubtedly a key part of our economic fabric and of our society, and the report articulates that very well. As others, including Daniel Johnson, have said, it was also helpful to have the sector placed in the context of brand Scotland, to illustrate the impacts on our collective aspirations for our country to be a great place to live, work, study, visit and do business.
Will the minister pay particular attention to two of the industry’s asks? The first is to simplify the planning system so that pubs are not seen as a problem in society and so that the system can be used to enable the sector. The other is a call for a period of calm in the regulatory environment, given that the industry has had quite a lot of shocks, including Covid and some Government-related shocks, such as the preparations for the deposit return scheme and the possible restrictions on alcohol marketing and sponsorship. Will the minister take those two asks to his ministerial colleagues?
As I said, the cross-party group’s report is powerful. Craig Hoy mentioned a couple of important themes from the report. We always keep those issues under consideration and, if I have the chance in the remaining few minutes, I might touch on them.
I put on record my recognition of and thanks to all the businesses, small and large—whether they are pubs or breweries—for the scale of the really positive work that they undertake in our country and the way in which they support our communities and our economy, not just in the south of Scotland, as highlighted in the motion, but across the country. Those businesses invest in people, whether that is by providing foundational employment opportunities to our young people who are entering the workplace, providing a hub for social interaction across all age groups or offering a pathway to training and job prospects for those in the justice system who are seeking to turn their lives around. Business needs a conscience, and the cross-party group’s report contains many examples of that in our pub and brewing sector. I have seen that up close when visiting many of Scotland’s hospitality and tourism businesses, as a minister and in my personal life.
It is no secret that businesses in the pub and brewing sector were hit very hard by the pandemic and the cost crisis, which many members have mentioned. The past four years in particular have been arguably the toughest in living memory for the sector, and things remain tough for many businesses.
The sector has a strong track record of resilience in the face of challenging economic conditions, but there are limits to what businesses can do, and we greatly regret the closure of any business in the pub and brewing sector. The same is true for any sector of the Scottish economy. Such closures have an impact on many fronts—from the loss of local services to the harsh reality of unemployment and the damage that is done to the downstream supply chain in that sector.
It is right that the Government does all that it can to avert such scenarios and, when closure cannot be avoided, we must work co-operatively with the industry and other partners to mitigate the worst outcomes. We cannot do everything, but we support the sector where we can within limited resources. That support includes rates relief and, despite the challenges, about half of properties in the retail, hospitality and leisure sectors have been eligible for 100 per cent relief through our small business bonus scheme and islands relief for hospitality in 2024-25.
We remain focused on how we can have a measured approach to regulation—that addresses one of the themes in the cross-party group’s report. That is being considered through the new deal for business, and there is wider consideration of issues around non-domestic rates, too.
Beyond rates and regulations, there are other measures that can be considered, such as investment in existing and new businesses, support for the promotion of pub and brewing sectors at home and abroad, support for skills development and careers, and the development of a long-term vision for tourism and hospitality and our wider food and drink sector.
The Scottish Government is fully behind Scotland Food & Drink’s partnership industry strategy and its vision for Scotland to be the best place in the world to own, operate and work for food and drink businesses. We have dedicated £5 million last year and £5 million this year towards the work on its “Sustaining Scotland. Supplying the World” strategy. That funding, which aims to help to move the dial on food and drink growth in Scotland, can, for example, help brewers to showcase their products to domestic and international buyers, as well as providing support for staff recruitment, training and retention and for the reduction of carbon footprints in the brewing and beer sector.
I should also talk about our national tourism strategy, which is set out in “Scotland Outlook 2030: Responsible tourism for a sustainable future”. That involves a longer-term vision for hospitality and tourism and is relevant to the debate and many of the issues in the cross-party group’s report.
It is appropriate for me to be speaking on this issue today because, immediately after the debate, I am taking the train to Glasgow to go to the Scottish Tourism Alliance’s Christmas reception, which I am speaking at. I see advertised on the programme for this evening a selection of beers, so I hope that I will sample some Scottish hospitality and beers later.
All our agencies are aligned to promote Scotland overseas and around the world and to make the most of the Scottish brand. As members have said, the pub, beer and wider food and drink sectors are at the heart of the Scottish brand around the world, and we have to protect that and save it. We also do that by promoting festivals in Scotland, and Angus Robertson, the Cabinet Secretary for Constitution, External Affairs and Culture, is working with partners across the festival sector, which is key to attracting people to enjoy hospitality in our country.
I see that I am running out of time—
Will the minister take an intervention?
I will take a brief intervention, then reach a conclusion.
Very, very brief.
I thank the minister for giving way—I wanted to make an intervention rather than make a point of order. I want to clarify that the report that I mentioned in my intervention on Finlay Carson wasnae from the OurWhisky Foundation; it was from GreatDrams. However, the point still stands: brand Scotland can use women in advertising and marketing.
I close by saying that our beer and brewing sector is part of Scotland’s identity. This is a challenging time, but we have to work in partnership with the sector to move forward and navigate through that. In recent months alone, many fantastic new businesses in the sector have opened across the country, and we should celebrate that. There is still a lot of confidence in the sector and a lot of people who want to enjoy hospitality.
As we run up to the Christmas and new year festivities, I wish all these sectors the best of health. I hope that they have great business over the next few weeks and that the people of Scotland stand behind them, just as the cross-party group does in the Scottish Parliament.
Meeting closed at 17:48.Air ais
Decision Time