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Meeting of the Parliament [Draft]

Meeting date: Thursday, October 3, 2024


Contents


General Question Time

The Presiding Officer (Alison Johnstone)

Good morning. The first item of business is general questions. To get in as many members as possible, short and succinct questions and responses would be appreciated.

Question 1 has been withdrawn.


Childcare Providers (Support)

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on how it is supporting childcare providers. (S6O-03806)

The Minister for Children, Young People and The Promise (Natalie Don-Innes)

The Scottish Government is taking a range of actions to support a diverse, thriving and sustainable sector. Despite the financial challenges that we are facing, the Scottish Government has prioritised funding to enable childcare workers in the private and third sectors who are delivering funded early learning and childcare to be paid at least the real living wage from April 2025. We are the only part of the United Kingdom to do so. That was backed by £16 million of investment in 2024-25.

In parallel, we continue to work with the sector and local government to progress the longer-term reforms to the sustainable rate-setting process that were recommended by last year’s joint rates review by the Scottish Government and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. We have also legislated to continue the nursery rates relief scheme, which is estimated to be worth about £11 million a year to childcare businesses.

Martin Whitfield

The data that was published alongside the early learning and childcare expansion interim evaluation report highlighted that, between 2018 and 2022, there was a 19 per cent decrease in the number of childcare providers in Scotland. In England, that reduction was just 10 per cent. That indicates a lack of adequate support for the sector and the providers.

The minister has previously stated that the Government is assured that the childcare sector is, in fact, economically sustainable. Will she confirm today that that is still the case? Will the Government publish the evidence that supports that view?

Natalie Don-Innes

I am very confident in the economic model. We continue to monitor the sector’s financial sustainability through our financial sustainability health checks. I want to be clear that ensuring such sustainability is a priority for me. I have been clear that private, voluntary and independent providers are an integral part of our childcare sector in Scotland.

As for further work, that fits in quite well with the rates review, which as well as being about updating sustainable rates guidance is about working with local government and funded providers to consider options for obtaining more robust and reliable cost data to direct future approaches. I would be happy to meet the member if he would like to discuss the progress on that further, but I hope that I have answered his question.

Jackie Dunbar (Aberdeen Donside) (SNP)

What level of national uptake has there been of the Scottish National Party’s initiative of giving three to five-year-olds up to 1,140 hours of funded early learning and childcare a year, following the support that has been given to childcare providers?

Natalie Don-Innes

Recent evidence shows that the estimated uptake rate remains very high, with more than 92,000 children accessing funded ELC in 2023. That includes 97 per cent of three and four-year-olds. Further to that, Improvement Service reporting shows that, in September 2023, 90 per cent of three and four-year-olds who were accessing funded ELC were using their full entitlement of 1,140 hours a year. I think that Ms Dunbar will agree that that is extremely positive and directly contributes to the Government’s mission to tackle child poverty, given that every family who utilises the universal offering is saving roughly £5,000 per year per child.

Meghan Gallacher (Central Scotland) (Con)

Given the brief conversation that I had with the minister beforehand, I thought that it would be remiss of me not to come in with a brief supplementary question. A constituent contacted me regarding the eligibility criteria, as their child was not able to start obtaining the 1,140 hours after they turned three years old. That would suggest a lack of support for private providers, which Martin Whitfield raised. What conversations is the minister having with local government to ensure that children can access 1,140 hours when they turn three years old?

Natalie Don-Innes

I appreciate Ms Gallacher’s question. I want parents and families to be able to receive their entitlement as soon as possible. I appreciate that different local authorities have different guidelines around the offer. I emphasise that it is for local authorities to set those guidelines, but of course I encourage local authorities to ensure that they are not only speaking to parents and consulting them on their needs but doing their best to ensure that children can receive that offer as quickly as possible once they are entitled to it.

Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD)

The Government’s recent report, which has been referred to, indicates that there has been a significant shift of workforce from the private, voluntary and independent sector to the council sector. Does that mean that the minister needs to act with more urgency to close the gap in funding, which the former First Minister Humza Yousaf promised that he would do?

Natalie Don-Innes

Since coming into post, I have worked with urgency, and I have regularly and passionately spoken about how valued our PVI sector is and about the fact that I want to do everything that I can to ensure the sector’s financial sustainability. I go back to the guidance on sustainable rates for early learning and childcare, which includes key measures on setting rates, whether that means looking at the process for two-year-olds or at whether meal rates reflect true costs. We are also looking at how local authorities are supporting private settings for children with additional support needs. A range of actions that are under way will make a real difference to the sector, and I have had positive feedback from the sector on them.


Levelling Up Funding

3. Bill Kidd (Glasgow Anniesland) (SNP)

To ask the Scottish Government what recent discussions it has had with the United Kingdom Government regarding the provision of levelling up funding for areas of multiple deprivation such as Drumchapel in the Glasgow Anniesland constituency. (S6O-03807)

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes)

I raised that very issue with the Deputy Prime Minister when I met her last Friday. That was on top of our regular contact with the United Kingdom Government on a range of issues, including the future of levelling up and other funds.

Bill Kidd

People in my constituency feel betrayed. Westminster promised funding for projects in communities across Scotland, only for people to see those promises abandoned, first by the Tories and now on Labour’s altar of austerity. I have today written to the Secretary of State for Scotland to urge him to deliver the funding that was promised to Scotland’s Parliament in order to properly fulfil the promises that were made to communities such as the one that I represent in Drumchapel. Does the minister agree that that funding cannot be a casualty of Labour austerity and that, rather than bypassing Scotland’s Parliament and undermining devolution, any funding should be for this Parliament to deliver for the people of Scotland and their priorities?

Kate Forbes

The member makes a compelling case for decisions being made as close to those who benefit as possible—namely, being made here in the Scottish Government. As I mentioned, I raised the matter with the Deputy Prime Minister last week. I reiterated our concerns about the levelling up fund and how it has been overly politicised under previous regimes.

As I understand it, the big risk is what will happen on 30 October, when the UK Government makes its budget statement. We sincerely hope that decisions will not be made in that budget that impact Scotland, and the community in Drumchapel, negatively.

Paul Sweeney (Glasgow) (Lab)

The manner in which projects were put forward by Glasgow City Council for levelling up funding was extremely opaque and involved gate keeping. Notwithstanding that, will the Deputy First Minister confirm when the Scottish Government’s regeneration funds, such as the vacant and derelict land investment programme and the regeneration capital grant fund, will be reopened, given that other projects are critically dependent on that funding?

Kate Forbes

The member understands how essential the Scottish Government’s regeneration funding has been. He will also understand that, if I cannot get any clarity from the UK Government on its schemes, it stands to reason that it will be very difficult to give him any commitments in advance of the UK Government’s budget or our Scottish Government budget. Our sincere hope—I hope that he will use his offices to put pressure on his colleagues—is that there will be a fair settlement to allow us to continue to support communities and that, when it comes to levelling up funding, it will be less opaque, less politicised and more impactful.


Population (Midlothian)

To ask the Scottish Government what assessment it has made of any impact on public services of an increased population in areas such as Midlothian. (S6O-03808)

The Minister for Equalities (Kaukab Stewart)

Our population strategy, published in 2021, includes a more balanced population component, which is focused on a sustainably distributed population. Localised population growth has been discussed at the joint Scottish Government and Convention of Scottish Local Authorities population round-table meeting, which includes representatives from all local authorities.

The ministerial population task force has considered exploratory research about the factors that drive population growth and its impact on public service planning and delivery.

At a future round-table meeting, we expect COSLA to bring forward an overview of local challenges that stem from population growth to inform the work of the task force and further collaborative delivery of the population strategy.

Christine Grahame

I thank the minister for her comprehensive answer. According to the most recent census, in 2022, Midlothian’s population had increased by 16 per cent since 2011, which is five times higher than the Scottish average. That will be an underestimate of the current position, with more substantial housing developments being built month after month. Pressures on nurseries, schools and medical practices—let alone roads—can only get worse.

I hear what the minister has said and I ask her, in her representations with COSLA and so on, to suggest that Midlothian is a special case, given the population explosion in the area.

Kaukab Stewart

I thank Christine Grahame for putting her question on the tensions that are faced in the areas that she represents.

Each local authority receives its fair share of the total funding that is provided by the Scottish Government. The needs-based distribution methodology is kept under constant review and is agreed each year with COSLA on behalf of local authorities. Although the formula takes into account a range of factors, it is primarily based on population. It follows that, all other factors being equal, if the population of a council area grows faster than those of other local authority areas, it will receive an increased share of the available funding.

The Scottish Government is always open to suggestions to improve the funding formula. However, the proposals must come through COSLA in the first instance, as is correct.


Hospitality Industry (Meetings)

To ask the Scottish Government when it last met with senior representatives from the Scottish hospitality industry. (S6O-03809)

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Economy and Gaelic (Kate Forbes)

The straight answer is less than two hours ago, when I met the Scottish Hospitality Group to discuss the challenges and opportunities that the industry faces.

I use this opportunity to commend and endorse the work that Scottish hospitality does as an industry. It is often the linchpin of local economies, and it is a major and vital employer, offering many excellent skilled career paths to people all across Scotland. It is the pride of Scotland, offering high-quality service and excellent food and drink.

Craig Hoy

I am glad that my question was a prompt for the minister to meet the industry. As the recent report on brand Scotland by the Parliament’s cross-party group on beer and pubs confirms, 2 per cent of Scotland’s pubs closed last year, compared with 0.9 per cent in England. The report makes a number of recommendations on how to stem losses.

In my area, the Goblin Ha in Gifford, which is an iconic heritage pub that forms almost half of the village’s main street, now lies shuttered and in darkness, having closed twice under two different tenants in the past 12 months. The local community is rightly concerned about the impact, not just of the loss of a local community gathering place but of vital jobs and tourism revenues.

Rural pubs are paying a heavy price for the Government’s failure to provide adequate support, particularly in relation to business rates. Will the minister therefore agree to meet me to discuss the findings of the CPG report and to explore how the Government can provide a lifeline to struggling pubs such as the Goblin Ha in Gifford?

Kate Forbes

Craig Hoy makes a compelling case about the importance of hospitality businesses, in terms of not just their economic impact but their being, often, a centrepiece for local community activity. The stats make that clear. Last year, Scottish hospitality comprised 14,815 businesses, accounting for 9 per cent of all businesses in Scotland and contributing £4.7 billion in gross value added. They are a major employer, employing 216,000 people in 2022, which is 8 per cent of all employment.

Although Craig Hoy has homed in on the specifics of a local case, I take him back to the macro impact and why it is on us all to support Scottish hospitality to ensure that it has a thriving future and to do everything within our power to save our high streets, as well.


Ferry Strategy

To ask the Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on its long-term ferry strategy to ensure reliability for communities. (S6O-03810)

The Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity (Jim Fairlie)

We published our updated vessels and ports plan earlier this year, and Transport Scotland published the consultation report and its initial responses on 3 September. That confirmed that reliability and resilience were the first priority of the plan. To support that, we are delivering six new major vessels for CalMac Ferries and are procuring seven new small vessels. The plan also confirms that we will retain a “resilience vessel” to cover planned and unplanned outages and that we will introduce a two-vessel summer service on the Little Minch, which will add capacity and resilience to Western Isles services and the network as a whole.

Rhoda Grant

It seems that a day does not go by without further delays to the new ferries and breakdowns of vessels in the existing fleet. South Uist is again bearing the brunt of the cancellations, and businesses are again being failed. Added to that, we are now in the fleet’s annual maintenance period.

I see that the Hebridean Isles vessel, which is due to be scrapped next month, is to provide cover for lifeline services. Will the minister now admit that there is a requirement for standby capacity for the fleet and that, if it is possible to retain the Hebridean Isles in the fleet beyond November, the Government should do that? Will he provide compensation to businesses before they are forced off island due to ferry failures?

Jim Fairlie

I do not think that there has ever been any lack of recognition of the fact that a resilience vessel would be required. However, it will not be possible to retain the boat to which Rhoda Grant refers beyond this point, because it would need a major overhaul. Caledonian Maritime Assets Ltd and CalMac Ferries anticipated that it would be out of service for many months as a result of such an overhaul, only to be disposed of when the new vessels come into play early next year.

As I said, the plan that has been set out looks at the resilience of all sectors. I will be happy to meet the member to discuss what that will look like as we go forward.


Private Jet Tax

To ask the Scottish Government what its response is to the recommendations in the recent Oxfam Scotland report, “Cleared for Take-off: A Private Jet Tax for Scotland”. (S6O-03811)

The Minister for Public Finance (Ivan McKee)

The Scottish Government welcomes the contribution from Oxfam Scotland, and we will consider the taxation of private jets as part of our work to introduce air departure tax.

We continue to explore all options to implement ADT in a way that protects lifeline services in the Highlands and Islands, and we will work with the United Kingdom Government on how that can be achieved in compliance with its subsidy control regime.

The UK-wide air passenger duty, including the higher rate, which already applies to private jets, will apply in Scotland until ADT is introduced.

Mark Ruskell

I thank the cabinet secretary for that constructive answer.

Oxfam has calculated that introducing a tax on private jets in Scotland could raise nearly £22 million a year, which would be enough to deliver the fairer fares on trains that commuters really need. Last week at First Minister’s question time, we heard that the First Minister would be

“very much in the spirit of”—[Official Report, 26 September 2024; c 17.]

embedding such a tax on luxury travel in a future air departure tax.

Would the minister support such an initiative? Can he provide more detail on the discussions that his Government is undertaking with the UK Government on the introduction of an air departure tax for Scotland and, in particular, on the intricacies around the details of an exemption for the Highlands and Islands? How much progress can we see being made on that in the months ahead?

Ivan McKee

The Scottish Government continues to engage constructively with the new UK Government, and we will report back on progress on that issue in due course. We are very keen—as, I am sure, the new UK Government is—to make progress on the issue, in compliance with state aid rules, and to ensure that we continue to support connectivity for the Highlands and Islands.

With regard to the specifics of the Oxfam report, I have asked officials to engage with Oxfam on the substance and the details of its calculations. Having had a quick look at the report, I have to say that it does not appear, at first glance, to have taken into account behavioural impacts. That is interesting, given that the primary thrust of the report is to reduce travel by private jet in the interests of tackling climate change.

However, as I said, I have asked my officials to engage constructively with Oxfam to understand the basis of its calculations. We will continue to engage with all parties in the Parliament with regard to discussions on what will be included in the forthcoming Scottish Government budget.

We have time for a concise question 8.


School Meal Nutritional Standards

I will be concise, as always.

To ask the Scottish Government what steps it is taking to ensure that school meals meet or exceed existing nutritional standards. (S6O-03812)

The Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (Jenny Gilruth)

We expect all local authorities to comply with the high standards that are set out in the Nutritional Requirements for Food and Drink in Schools (Scotland) Regulations 2020, which are accompanied by supporting statutory guidance. Education Scotland health and nutrition inspectors monitor school food and drink provision as part of the school inspection programme.

Brian Whittle

School meals are a crucial way to offer the balanced nutrition that is so important in tackling hunger, malnutrition and issues relating to behaviour, attainment and physical and mental health. Does the cabinet secretary believe that the current nutritional standards are sufficiently high to meet those criteria?

Jenny Gilruth

I am cognisant of time. There is a technical working group that has independently advised on the development of nutritional standards. That group’s primary focus is on the health and wellbeing of children and young people. I am more than happy to engage directly with the member about that, because I know that he has previously raised the issue here.