Official Report 908KB pdf
Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002 Amendment Order 2025 [Draft]
The next item on the agenda is consideration of a draft Scottish statutory instrument. I welcome to the meeting Jim Fairlie, the Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity. I also welcome the minister’s officials, George Burgess, director of agriculture and rural economy; Mandy Callaghan, deputy director, agriculture and land transition; and Nick Downes, deputy director and chief digital and data officer, agriculture and rural economy.
I remind our witnesses that they do not need to operate their microphones, and I invite the minister to make an opening statement.
Good morning, and thank you for inviting me to introduce this draft Scottish statutory instrument. The draft instrument amends the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002 by adding the Scottish pubs code adjudicator and Quality Meat Scotland to schedule 2, which lists bodies that may be investigated by an ombudsman. The instrument also removes five organisations that no longer exist. The Tied Pubs (Scotland) Act 2021 seeks to rebalance the relationship between pub-owning businesses and tied pub tenants. The act requires ministers to publish a Scottish pubs code and appoint a Scottish pubs code adjudicator who has responsibility for overseeing and enforcing the code.
The Scottish pubs code will come into effect on 31 March 2025, and the adjudicator has already been appointed. The adjudicator has published an internal complaints procedure. As it is another significant national body, ministers consider it appropriate for the adjudicator to be added to schedule 2 of the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002, giving individuals and businesses a means of escalating complaints and giving the ombudsman the ability to investigate cases, if that is required.
It transpires that, at the time of its creation, in 2008, Quality Meat Scotland was not added to the list of organisations in schedule 2 of the 2002 act. We do not know the reason for the omission. Quality Meat Scotland has a complaints procedure, but we consider it appropriate for QMS to now be covered by the 2002 act, and we are looking to correct the omission through this instrument.
We are also taking the opportunity to tidy up the legislation further by removing the names of five organisations that are listed in schedule 2 but that no longer exist. I believe that the changes to the 2002 act are appropriate and proportionate and that they will contribute to the effective governance and oversight of public bodies in Scotland. There is no requirement to consult on the changes to schedule 2. However, we have liaised with the adjudicator and Quality Meat Scotland, and they are aware of our intentions. As is required by the 2002 act, if the instrument is approved, it will be signed by the Privy Council rather than by Scottish ministers. We understand that it has a meeting scheduled in early April.
I am happy to take any questions.
My questions revolve around the lack of information in the policy note and the reasons for that.
Some of the detail that the minister is covering today is not covered in the policy note. There was no information relating to the Scottish pubs code adjudicator, and there was no reason why that was not in there. We also cannot quite understand why QMS was not included in the schedule right from the start or why it has now been included, given that—as the minister said—it has its own internal audit system. The biggest issue that we have is that that information was not included in the policy note.
There was also no commencement date in the policy note. The minister is telling us this morning that the commencement date is 31 March, but that was excluded. We are simply trying to understand why the policy note was so lacking. It did not even mention the five organisations that are gonnae be removed.
George Burgess will answer on the technical side of that.
The policy note needs to be read in conjunction with the explanatory note, which is part of the instrument itself and which indicates what is being done about the removal of the bodies. The reason for that is simply that they do not exist any more. There is not very much more that can be said on that.
I believe that the policy note is probably of a similar nature to other policy notes in relation to instruments amending the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002. However, if the committee is concerned that it is on the brief side and would prefer us to dilate at greater length in future policy notes, I can feed that back to those who might be responsible for other similar ones.
In relation to the absence of a specific commencement date, it is—as the minister said—a draft order in council, so it is therefore not directly in the gift of ministers to give a date. The instrument provides that it comes into force on the day after the date on which it is made. The minister has indicated that we understand that there is a Privy Council meeting scheduled for a particular date. Ultimately, however, it will depend on when this Parliament approves the draft instrument—if, indeed, it does—and when that gets to the Privy Council and when His Majesty in council agrees to the making of the order.
As the minister said, however, the bodies that are affected by it are aware of the policy.
On the convener’s question about why QMS was not included in 2008, I do not know. I do not think that my officials understand why it was not included in 2008.
The convener also made the point that QMS has an internal complaints procedure, which is absolutely correct. However, that does not give a complainant a second body to go to if they are not happy with the procedure that has been carried out by QMS. The ombudsman gives the complainant—whoever they may happen to be—the opportunity to go to an external body and say, “I’m not comfortable or happy with this, and I’d like you to have another look at it.” That is the reason why QMS is being included as a body under the ombudsman’s jurisdiction.
The five organisations that are being taken away have not been in existence or operation in Scotland for quite some time. Is there any reason for the delay in removing the likes of the Meat and Livestock Commission?
I can only assume that there was an omission sometime in the dim and distant past, long before I, or any people that I know of, were involved. George Burgess may have more of an answer to that than I do.
I do have greater form when it comes to the ombudsman, having been involved in setting up the transitional arrangements in 1999 and then in the preparation for the 2002 act.
The omission in 2008 is curious. QMS was set up by a parallel order at the same time as the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board. In that order, amendments were made to the Parliamentary Commissioner Act 1967, which set up the United Kingdom ombudsman. I would have expected amendments to have been made to the Scottish act at a similar time.
As the committee will be aware, there are a number of pieces of legislation that list bodies. Different approaches are sometimes taken, which might involve individual pieces of legislation making amendments or—for instance, in relation to parliamentary disqualification—things being gathered up into an omnibus order and all the changes being made at the same time. I believe that, in this case, the required change simply fell between the cracks. The opportunity was not taken to add QMS to the list at the time, at which point the Meat and Livestock Commission would have been removed, and there was no omnibus order shortly thereafter, which would have been the other opportunity to address the issue.
However, having spotted that error, we are now seeking to put it right.
Good morning. What consultation was done on the order? What was the response from QMS?
No consultation was done, as none was required. However, QMS is aware that it will be covered by the ombudsman.
Was there no feedback at all from QMS?
I have spoken to QMS, and I think that it recognises that it is perfectly appropriate for it to be included in the list in the 2002 act.
So, QMS is not worried about this.
No—there is no issue with that.
The Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee identified an issue with the updating of schedule 2 to the 2002 act, which will create a duplicate paragraph 32AAA. How will that be resolved?
Again, that is a technical question, so I will ask George Burgess to respond.
Apologies—
The order proposes to insert “Quality Meat Scotland” in the 2002 act by adding paragraph 32AAA to schedule 2. Similarly, the Education (Scotland) Bill proposes to insert “Qualifications Scotland” in the 2002 act by adding paragraph 32AAA to schedule 2. The DPLR Committee identified that issue.
I apologise, convener. I was unaware of that. I was under the impression that the DPLR Committee had not raised any issues. I can take that away and discuss it with the legal directorate. It might be possible for that issue to be dealt with as a printing point.
We have previously raised concerns about a lack of detail in policy notes. The policy note to the order that we are considering today certainly ranks very highly from the point of view of providing as little information as possible and requiring the committee to go away and seek out the information. That is not helpful. Therefore, I would appreciate it if you took that message away, to ensure that future policy notes detail the important issues. In this case, not naming the five organisations that are to be removed from the list in the 2002 act seems a significant oversight.
As members have no other comments to make, we will move on to formal consideration of the motion to approve the instrument. I invite the minister to speak to and move motion S6M-16490.
Motion moved,
That the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee recommends that the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman Act 2002 Amendment Order 2025 [draft] be approved.—[Jim Fairlie]
Motion agreed to.
Is the committee content to delegate to me the authority to sign off our report on the instrument?
Members indicated agreement.
That completes our consideration of the instrument. I will not suspend the meeting, because the minister’s support team is already in place.
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