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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 November 2025
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Displaying 1227 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

Of course.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

I have one final quick comment. To go back to Ruth Breslin’s point about the difficulties with prosecutions and possibly bringing in an on-the-spot fine, my instinct would be that men who pay for sex would pay a fine; I do not think that that would be any great deterrent. That is just my view.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

Good afternoon. My first question is a quick question for Professor Phoenix.

In your opening statement, you said that sex work is always linked to violence, organised crime and so on. Is the logical conclusion not that decriminalising it would improve the situation? If sex work is decriminalised, it would not have those implications.

12:15  

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

Conversely, one could say that the industry would be easier to police if it was decriminalised. I agree that there are violent men and there always will be, but if it was decriminalised, that could be the case. That is just a different viewpoint. I agree with my colleague Jamie Hepburn that the overriding concern for us all, regardless of what side of the issue we are on, is women’s safety; I do not think that anybody would disagree with that.

I come to Ruth Breslin, again on the aspect of women’s safety. We heard in previous evidence about general changes that would make sex workers less safe under the proposed model. One of those relates to the potential impact on an app that sex workers currently use to flag up dangerous customers, clients or whatever we want to call them. That is quite a concern.

On your point about migrant women, I am struggling to see how they would be safer if the buyer was criminalised. Again, we heard in previous evidence about a migrant woman who was charged with brothel keeping. She was trying to keep herself safe with colleagues, but she was arrested by police, who appeared—we were told anecdotally—with a battering ram, and they made stigmatising comments about her.

I hear what you are saying, but we have heard evidence that that is not the case. I want to ask you, and the other witnesses, what your thoughts are about the fact that brothel keeping is not in the bill.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

Notwithstanding the arguments that we have heard, I think that we all agree on the bigger, long-term picture. The core reason for the SSI being laid is that we are in an emergency situation. I cannot understand why committee members would not understand that an emergency situation requires immediate action. I will support the SSI.

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

Will Liam Kerr take an intervention?

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

To be clear, does Liam Kerr recognise that this is an emergency situation? Is he saying that we should build our way out of the situation by building more prisons?

Criminal Justice Committee (Draft)

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Rona Mackay

Do you have evidence of that?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Rona Mackay

I thank the witnesses for coming today. We know that this is a polarising issue and we are about to hear from people who do not agree with the bill, but we all have women’s safety as our primary concern.

I want to ask Bronagh Andrew and Diane Martin about the support that is offered to women and how the Nordic model would change that. Can you give me a rough idea of the scale of engagement that you have with women sex workers at the moment?

Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Prostitution (Offences and Support) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 8 October 2025

Rona Mackay

Yes.