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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 November 2024
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Displaying 1551 contributions

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Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

This is quite important because, clearly, your team will be watching this evidence session and our exchange. If I were a member of your team, I would absolutely be watching it—get back to your work if you are watching it right now; watch it later. I was not casting aspersions on your team. My questions were more about checks and balances in the system and whether, if the data flagged up something that needed to be attended to, that might be due to a lack of clarity in the investigations manual or a lack of clarity in processes more generally. Therefore, for staff who are watching this, it is important to say that I was not casting aspersions on them. I am looking at checks and balances in the system and the processes that underpin it.

I think that you are saying that it is not the case that the investigating officer goes away for three months and comes back with a conclusion to put on your desk. There is a weekly review process, so no one is going to go down a tangential path in an investigation that you are unaware of. You take a more collegiate approach to investigations. Have I captured that properly?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

Thank you.

These last couple of questions from me are Covid related, and they concern the need for change in working practices. You will want to know what the level of satisfaction has been with appointment rounds on the part of panel and body chairs, as maintained through new ways of working during the pandemic. Your office is heavily involved in those appointments, and the processes had to be tweaked because of the pandemic. What has the level of satisfaction been among those panel and body chairs who have had to engage in that appointments process? What are their views on how it has been handled?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

I will not explore that further, but thank you for putting that on the record.

I turn to my final question. Your annual report and accounts refer to planned activity that was suspended or postponed due to prioritisation of other work—understandably so. Can you explain more about what work was delayed and when you envisage that the delays will be addressed? I would imagine that that was unavoidable delay, but can you say a bit more about where those delays have been and when you think that the office will be able to catch up?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

Your role is to ensure that there is continuity of process. Is that a reasonable way of looking at it?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

Is that different from how the process used to operate?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

Thank you, Mr Bruce—I wanted you to put that on record for completeness in your evidence this morning.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

I was going to ask about workforce planning. You have probably covered most of my questions, but I will ask them in case you want to fill in any gaps.

Can you say a bit more about the workforce planning that you are undertaking to address the high staff turnover? You mentioned the lack of corporate memory. You have said a lot about stabilisation and recovery, but resilience is a key issue. As with any small organisation, it only takes one or two people not to be there to present a significant challenge.

You mentioned workforce planning. Can you link that to future resilience?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

That will chime with MSPs, as we employ staff for one thing but, in reality, the demands of the office mean that we deploy them as necessary for other business needs. I think that MSP staffers would recognise that, too.

I will move on. The auditor found that,

“based on legal advice”

that you obtained,

“the ... operation of the investigation process (as amended in August 2020) and the assessment process does not comply with the required legislation.”

What confidence do you have that the MSP complaints that were handled during that period were assessed properly? You have spoken a lot about getting continuity and consistency for the future, but, looking back slightly, what confidence do you have that investigations were assessed appropriately?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

I am not really sure how to interrogate that—well, “interrogate” is the wrong word; I do not mean it in that way. I am not sure how to probe further in that regard, because of course you would give us that reassurance. You have put on the record today that, wherever you thought that there was a lack of clarity or you were not sure, you sought external legal advice as you went along. I suppose that there is a degree of reassurance in that.

Convener, some of my colleagues might want to expand on that point, so I will not hog this line of questioning. I anticipate that there might be some further questions in this area.

10:30  

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee

Commissioner for Ethical Standards in Public Life in Scotland

Meeting date: 10 February 2022

Bob Doris

I have a couple of unrelated questions; I do not know whether you want me to cover those now or not, convener.